Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[CynicalBear]

>>And He saw her as a team member.<<

Actually no. She more likely jumped the gun on Him going public.

[xzins]

Be careful with those united Methodists. They’ll fool ya.

Seriously, though, you’re saying that cult members can be Christian. You’re probably saying it’s the exception rather than the rule, but this seems to be the whole group.

I’m putting this on you, because sometimes it’s good to put faces to some of our thoughts.

[xzins]

Look at the Greek. You’ll see what I mean.

[Resettozero]

Actually no. She more likely jumped the gun on Him going public.

He wasn't ready to do the miracle but went ahead and did it (His first miracle recorded) to honor his mother (and step-father) and keep the law...?

[CynicalBear]

I think you misunderstood. I agree with you on the Greek as far as the “what’s it to you and me”. What I meant was that she in effect caused Him to perform a miracle before He was really wanting to begin.

[xzins]

Good, you agree with the translation. In that translation is Jesus basically saying, “That’s no big deal for us.”

That doesn’t sound like Him being pushed to fast.

Besides, you don’t believe He could be pushed into doing something He didn’t want to do.

[xzins]

too fast

[Grateful2God]

Beautifully put! There are so many Mysteries of God and His Kingdom that we'll never fully comprehend, even if we stand before His Throne for all eternity!

As for Mary, yes, Satan despises her for all her virtue! She is a powerful ally against temptation; a role model of a chaste, obedient servant of God. That's where her sanctity lies: the absence of sin and the fullness of virtue. How could one raise the Christ Child and not be holy? Imagine the great love among the three, the joy of living under the same roof as the Son of God!

And yes, His Merciful Love. To the woman caught in adultery, He was gentle and kind. To the one who wept at His Feet, He offered forgiveness. God is love; His justice is tempered with mercy, and He delights in His children when they seek Him!

May His Peace descend upon you, and His Spirit guide you to Him, and His Mother's love keep you ever close to Him!

God bless you!

[Resettozero]

Seriously, though, you’re saying that cult members can be Christian.

Equally seriously, that is not at all what I've said. Back up and start again with this premise which I DO hold:

The RCC is one of many cults. I hate the deeds of the RCC but love the members who have been enslaved/enticed by its beautifully false Christian doctrines, enticements, and shows of self-proclaimed superior pomposities.

Some of the RCC members fighting the fiercest on these FR RF threads may be children of God...by promise...yet to be born-again. He calls and chooses those He wills.

Of the former RCs I know, each has repented and had a professed change of mind and then has joined with non-RCC believers in worship to God and fellowship with other Christians. They all admit they were deceived or misled (at the least) by the most subtle doctrines/practical teachings of Roman Catholicism which CHANGED the true Word of God into a man-made religion they no longer wanted to be connected with.

[Resettozero]

In that translation is Jesus basically saying, “That’s no big deal for us.”

Chaplain! Now I'm a liberal when it comes to loving and using the English language to suit me. But this...this translation doesn't sound like something coming from the Jesus I know. Doesn't sound like His voice to me.

[xzins]

That’s not a translation. The translation would be, literally, as I provided earlier: “What..to me and to you.”

What I provided in “That’s no big deal for us.” is what I’m supposing He’d say if He were saying the same thing in our era.

[ealgeone]

Your post 2840.....that she business comes from the vulgate. More bad theology from a bad translation.

[Resettozero]

The translation would be, literally, as I provided earlier: “What..to me and to you.”

What I provided in “That’s no big deal for us.” is what I’m supposing He’d say if He were saying the same thing in our era.

Okay. But does that make better sense than the rendering by King James translators?

Besides, the "supposings" of the RCC have already filled libraries full of speculative man-made religious interpretative writings. Enough already.

And why are you fighting so hard for this point? I bow to your superior knowledge of translations and such.

[ealgeone]

Read the text in John 2 and you’ll see It was not the time for Jesus to start His ministry.

[xzins]

OK, but I have preconception to overcome: that Jesus couldn’t be made to do something that He didn’t want to do.

[xzins]

Well, it’s much better than what they put in any translation that I’ve ever seen. With they’d just put the literal words there and let the folks figure out the meaning for themselves.

How, about “No problem, Woman!” with a big grin on His face?

[xzins]

Or “no problaymo, Mommo”

[Resettozero]

OK, but I have preconception to overcome: that Jesus couldn’t be made to do something that He didn’t want to do.

Honor thy father and thy mother...one of the laws He kept perfectly. He wasn't pushed; He wasn't MADE to do anything against His will. (He hadn't come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it.) Hence...voil...That should be enough vino to hold them for the rest of the MONTH!

[xzins]

With they’d just put

Wish they'd....

Where do these typos come from??? Am I typing with a lisp? :>)

[Resettozero]

How, about “No problem, Woman!” with a big grin on His face?

Or “no problaymo, Mommo”

But that's not what is recorded in Scripture. What he said was that it wasn't His time yet. But He went aheand and performed the (first, out-of-season) miracle to honor His mother's wish that He do something to help.