Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[CynicalBear]

>>You can’t take an English non-biblical word and use its Latin form to define it now.<<

You can't take a Latin word and it's intended meaning when it was written and change the meaning. If you want to mean something different use a different word. It the same with the Latria and dulia words they use.

Latria - the highest form of veneration or worship.

Dulia - from Greek douleia slavery, from doulos slave

So they claim to be slaves of Mary and their so called saints. But scripture says:

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

I wouldn't be playing word games with God.

[Resettozero]

I imagined you wanted me dead, because of the words you chose to express yourself.

[Resettozero]

If you’re fortunate enough to meet Christ one day...

I have vlad; I already have. Faith has its own eyes, you know.

[vladimir998]

“I imagined you wanted me dead, because of the words you chose to express yourself.”

I don’t think you imagined that at all.

[daniel1212]

All that said, veneration should not look like worship. Do you agree with that? As said before,

Let's review the greek word used for worship in the NT at the start of this thread. 4352 proskynéō (from 4314 /prós, "towards" and kyneo, "to kiss") – properly, to kiss the ground when prostrating before a superior; to worship, ready "to fall down/prostrate oneself to adore on one's knees" (DNTT); to "do obeisance" (BAGD).; suggests the willingness to make all necessary physical gestures of obeisance.]

As said before,

one would have a hard time in Bible times explaining kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, and as having Divine powers and glory, and making offerings and beseeching such for Heavenly help, directly accessed by mental prayer.

Moses, put down those rocks! I was only engaging in hyper dulia, not adoring her. Can't you tell the difference?

[vladimir998]

“I have vlad; I already have.”

So you say.

“Faith has its own eyes, you know.”

Remember that truth the next time you demand proof of a Catholic belief from me. We’ll see if you believe your own words.

[Resettozero]

I don’t think you imagined that at all.

To avoid the possibility that you just called me a liar, I'll post that perhaps I only imagined that I imagined that the thought you may have cursed me came to mind when I read your post.

That way, no one has been implied to be a liar on open FR Religion Forum.

[xzins]

Nope. We’re not all protestants. As I have repeatedly affirmed, words have meanings. The ‘protest group’ was specific. They only gave rise to a split. Those who arose later had nothing to do with that split.

And we all don’t have the same doctrine. Doctrinal distinctives are probably the major reason for different denominations.

It rankled me as a military chaplain when higher-ups grouped certain ‘sects’ into the ‘Protestant’ camp simply because they weren’t Catholic. It became clear to me at that time that we were all more understood by our differences, and that some were entirely different religions.

I have a career’s worth of experience in dealing with these different denominations. No one can convince me of their being ‘in the same camp’.

[Resettozero]

Remember that truth the next time you demand proof of a Catholic belief from me. We’ll see if you believe your own words.

Assuming that paragraph makes sense on a new level of heretofore unknown kind of logic, okay.

[vladimir998]

“To avoid the possibility that you just called me a liar,”

According to the rules of the board - there is no possibility of that.

“I’ll post that perhaps I only imagined that I imagined that the thought you may have cursed me came to mind when I read your post.”

I don’t really care what you post.

“That way, no one has been implied to be a liar on open FR Religion Forum.”

Again, I don’t really care what you post. Stop making things personal.

[xzins]

No, I know Christian culture and its diversity. I’ve experienced it firsthand in a way that most haven’t. You aren’t the first or the only to claim exclusive knowledge.

[Resettozero]

Apology accepted.

[metmom]

Well, if a Catholic can get to define Protestantism for Protestants, then Protestants can get to define Catholicism for Catholics.

Otherwise, Catholics are operating on a double standard, which I see is really not very unusual.

[xzins]

Nope. Veneration means deep respect. In English it is different than worship.

I will continue to trust my eyes. If what someone is doing walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck.

[xzins]

See #2474

[metmom]

RTZ: “I imagined you wanted me dead, because of the words you chose to express yourself.”

vlad: I don’t think you imagined that at all.

Well, there you have it.

This is what Catholics want us to come to or return to?

We should *cross the Tiber* for this?

I wonder what kind of fruit of the Spirit is being displayed there.

[Resettozero]

If what someone is doing walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck.

Unless...

...something is mimicking a duck?

[metmom]

Stop making things personal.

Just wow.

You're telling him to stop making things personal after you just told him that you wanted him dead?

How much more personal does it get?

[xzins]

It’s a problem when someone can’t tell the difference between a fake duck and a real duck.

[Resettozero]

I wonder what kind of fruit of the Spirit is being displayed there.

Not much on my part, mom; not much if any.

And it's...R2z. (Trademark pending)

Thanks.