Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
And yet no Catholic...
So Catholics are evil for holding fast to the traditions handed down by the Apostles, some of which aren't mentioned explicitly in the Bible, yet it's OK for Protestants to hold to Luther's tradition of Sola Scriptura, which isn't mentioned explicitly (or implicitly) in the Bible.
Can you explain this, or are we supposed to just ignore this contradiction?
,,,can show any source for the belief in the assumption of Mary or bowing to idols or even that the traditions they claim are the same traditions the apostles were talking about.
A tradition usually refers to something that isn't written down, but is passed down, generation to generation.
tra·di·tionSt. Paul is recorded in the Bible as instructing his followers to "stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter."
trəˈdiSH(ə)n/
noun1. the transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation, or the fact of being passed on in this way.
+++
Regardless, the earliest written records of the Assumption of Mary date from the sixth century.
Bodily Assumption of the Blessed Virgin MaryAccording to the old (1917)Catholic Encyclopedia:"[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord's chosen ones..."
Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles,1:4(inter A.D. 575-593),in JUR,III:306
"As the most glorious Mother of Christ,our Savior and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him."
Modestus of Jerusalem,Encomium in dormitionnem Sanctissimae Dominae nostrae Deiparae semperque Virginis Mariae(PG 86-II,3306),(ante A.D. 634) from Munificentis simus Deus
"It was fitting ... that the most holy-body of Mary, God-bearing body, receptacle of God, divinised, incorruptible, illuminated by divine grace and full glory ... should be entrusted to the earth for a little while and raised up to heaven in glory, with her soul pleasing to God."
Theoteknos of Livias,Homily on the Assumption(ante A.D. 650),in THEO,57
According to the life of St. Theodosius (d. 529) it was celebrated in Palestine before the year 500, probably in August (Baeumer, Brevier, 185). In Egypt and Arabia, however, it was kept in January, and since the monks of Gaul adopted many usages from the Egyptian monks (Baeumer, Brevier, 163), we find this feast in Gaul in the sixth century, in January [mediante mense undecimo (Greg. Turon., De gloria mart., I, ix)]. The Gallican Liturgy has it on the 18th of January, under the title: Depositio, Assumptio, or Festivitas S. Mariae (cf. the notes of Mabillon on the Gallican Liturgy, P.L., LXXII, 180). This custom was kept up in the Gallican Church to the time of the introduction of the Roman rite. In the Greek Church, it seems, some kept this feast in January, with the monks of Egypt; others in August, with those of Palestine; wherefore the Emperor Maurice (d. 602), if the account of the "Liber Pontificalis" (II, 508) be correct, set the feast for the Greek Empire on 15 August+++
There is no record of Luther's tradition of Sola Scriptura in the early Fathers, or anywhere else, as far as I know, prior to Luther (A.D. 1517)
It’s like trying to nail jello to a wall, isn’t it?
Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three measures apiece.
Dead people?
But Scripture isn't so the Catholic church takes it upon itself to make *corrections* and to *interpret* it *correctly*.
Now would that be the CCC from V2 or from before Vatican 2?
Which version of the CCC is perfect?
Let’s look at the word rocket. It, too, doesn’t appear anyplace in scripture. However, it has an etymology. It appears the distaff that held thread was cone shaped and was the Italian word rochetto which means bobbin.
One can see the similarity appearance: rocket/rochetto. These are non-biblical words.
One can also see a similar appearance with venerate and venerari, the Latin. The first, In English, means to pay respect to. The second means to worship. These, too, are non-Biblical words.
The argument appears to be, “Since venerari is the source of our word venerate, that means that veneration is actually worship.”
Using that same logic: “Since rochetto is the source for our English word rocket, that means that a rocket scientist is a tailor who uses a bobbin on a sewing machine.”
All that said, veneration should not look like worship. Do you agree with that? That leaves us with having to agree on what worship looks like, but we I see no way an honest person can perform certain acts and call them worship, and then perform those same acts and call them veneration. That would strike me as a tap dance.
HMMMmmm...
I could have SWORN you liked the Vulgate.
I could be wrong...
Sure, sure...
Exactly. It's amazing that Catholics put so much importance on Mary and the myths surrounding those beliefs without so much as a hint of evidence that stands up to scrutiny.
Yes; you answered a question that wasn’t asked.
16 years...
Better late that never!
Sure he did.
(We can do this all day long.)
Jesus called Samaritans DOGS.
Did they bark to communicate?
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
“I’m not even allowed - according to the private messages I was sent - to use a particular word in this forum. So what’s the point of trying if it’s already apparent that my posts will simply be deleted?”
All potty language is removed from the Religion Forum, you are not being picked on.
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No need for that; just AGREE what your holy fathers (ther's that word again!) have taught.
#7 is just above this.
Feel free to ignore it as you have #6, #5, #4, #3, #2, and #1.
There is probably very little request for wanting to be a clone.
Just a LOT of unnecessary ritual and blather.
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