Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[Elsie]

I don’t think God gave us a Bible so that we could club each other over the head with it.

That's what the boiling oil was for...

[defconw]

She is not dead. The Communion of Saints is not dead. God is not dead. Jesus is not dead. The fact that you think so explains a lot to me. I really don't mean that in a mean way. Just it explains to me where you are coming from and it's only something God can fix.

[annalex]

The passages (John 19,, John 6, Luke 22, 1 Cor 11) teach what they do very plainly; the only way to square them with the Protestant set of superstitions is to discard them altogether. Which, effectively, is what Protestantism does.

[metmom]

And the Catholic church says both yes and no.

It can’t even make up its collective mind.

[Elsie]

We don't believe that the saints are asleep.

We believe what the Scriptures say!!!

Psalm 13:3
Look on me and answer, Lord my God. Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death,

 

Psalm 90:5
Yet you sweep people away in the sleep of death— they are like the new grass of the morning:

 

Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
 
 
John 11:12-13
His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.”
Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

 

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Listen, I tell you a mystery:

We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 

Ephesians 5:14
This is why it is said: “Wake up, sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”

 

 
1 Thessalonians 4:13
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.
 

[annalex]

then John Wycliffe was correct enough, Calvin was correct enough

I have no interest in what sundry charlatans taught, but if they also were familiar with "the flesh profiteth nothing" passage and concluded from it that the Holy Eucharist is there to profit, rather, our spirit, then yes, they understood it correctly. Even an ignorant Protestant pastor can we correct once in a while.

[annalex]

Why do you think He would resist OUR prayers?

I don't and He doesn't, that is why I pray to Mary; please read in context.

[Resettozero]

The Communion of Saints is not dead.

Are you referring to the eternal lives of all believers who are hid in Christ?

"Communion of saints" can mean different things.

And please don't get exasperated with me because I am not a member of the RCC. Many FReepers are not.

[metmom]

My personal opinion is that most people need the assistance of the Catholic Church to fully understand God's Word and to achieve salvation. But even then, some do not fully accept or practice Christ's teachings.

IOW, that's your own personal interpretation at work there.

And how is your personal interpretation better than anyone else's and how does that give you the capability to judge that others are not fully accepting or practicing Christ's teachings?

[CynicalBear]

>>I am not a theologian or Biblical scholar, nor have I ever claimed to be.<<

So if unbelievers go directly to hell when they die does Jesus take them out of hell and then put them back in hell at the judgement? And if the saved go directly to heaven does Jesus take them out of heaven and then declare that they can go back to heaven?

[Elsie]

I have an appointment with a beautiful Lady.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dresvqIg9nA

[annalex]

He did not say “On the contrary”. He says, “yes, rather”. He approved of the praise while correcting it and directing it also to others who hear and keep the Word spiritually.

[annalex]

No, she gave birth to Jesus but not to the entire Holy Trinity.

[Elsie]

I read what is written.

But it appears; like the the eunuch; you don't understand.

Where is Philip when you need him?

[Elsie]

She is not dead.

Yes; she is.

[annalex]

In Romans 5 the discussion is about a different topic, original sin rather than actual sin.

[Elsie]

God is not dead. Jesus is not dead. The fact that you think so explains a lot to me.

The 'fact' that you've placed M-ry in this group says something to me as well.

[metmom]

I feel like I am dealing with a bunch of lawyers, here.

You are.

RC's are masters at justifying blatant violations of the teachings of Jesus, to the point of ridiculous hair splitting on the definitions of words and how praying *TO* someone is not really praying *TO* them after all.

[Elsie]

I have no interest in what sundry charlatans taught,

Then why are you catholic?

[annalex]

I keep hearing Roman Catholics do not pray to Mary

Whoever said that probably meant that when we pray to Mary it is at the same time a prayer to God. Like Hail Mary.