Posted on 12/09/2014 2:09:19 PM PST by NYer
In contemporary terms, let’s say I have been working at Home Depot for many years without a raise. My boss is pleased with the work I have done. To whom should I go to ask for a raise - my boss or the company’s CEO?
Great analogy!
Very poor analogy. Prayers and worship are for God alone. But then again spiritual things are spiritually discerned.
“my boss or the company’s CEO?”
Terrible analogy. The all powerful God who flung stars out from His hands is not a CEO. But more importantly that God is very personal and no intermediary is needed to access Him. He exists in three persons for us.
No intermediary is needed to access Him. That was taken care of on the cross. The curtain was torn in the temple, symbolizing our direct access to him.
Terrible
NYer: In contemporary terms, let’s say I have been working at Home Depot for many years without a raise. My boss is pleased with the work I have done. To whom should I go to ask for a raise - my boss or the company’s CEO?
Grate2God: Great analogy!
Terrible analogy. Neither the boss, or the company’s CEO are infinite, all powerful, all knowing beings; whereas God knows your very thoughts at this moment.
You CAN skip a man-made chain of command when you want your voice heard. Just take it to the Lord in prayer. Asking other fellow humans to ask God as well, is of course appropriate.
The only scriptural case, of enquiring the help of a deceased person, was King Saul wanting the witch to bring up Samuel. That turned out REAL bad for Saul.
I know RCs like to use the story of Solomon having a chair placed beside his throne for his mother, Bathsheba, as an example for praying to Mary. She (Bathsheba) was being a mediator for Adonijah, Solomon’s half-brother. That turned out REAL bad for Adonijah.
Ha! ya beat me!
Tobit is not sacred Scripture. Besides, even IF it was, this passage doesn't ever say believers should pray to angels. Tobit didn't know Raphael was an angel when he went with Tobit's son Tobias. And, this supposed "angel of the Lord" told Tobit something that went against actual Scripture when he said, "For almsgiving delivers from death, and it will purge away every sin.". No doubt, that's where Roman Catholics got the idea of charging indulgences for getting loved ones out of Purgatory - it's pretty shaky ground to build whole doctrines out of such.
“my boss or the company’s CEO?
Terrible analogy.”
It was not an analogy made in disrespect of God: it was the simplification of something complex.
“The all powerful God who flung stars out from His hands is not a CEO.”
Of course not! Neither was Jesus our Messiah literally a grain of wheat; He used something people could relate to in order to make a point.
“But more importantly that God is very personal and no intermediary is needed to access Him.” .
That is your belief. We as Catholics believe in The Communion of Saints. This is the concept to which the analogy pertained. (Not to be confused with Holy Communion, Which is Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrament)
http://www.ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/SPIRCATH.HTM#07
Chapter 7, explains this doctrine much better than I can!
“He exists in three persons for us”
We do agree that there is One God in Three Divine Persons: Father, Soon, and Holy Spirit- a Mystery of Faith to us in our human nature!
God bless you!
The angels aren’t omniscient nor omnipresent. They are not God, they are messengers and ministering spirits of God. They go where HE sends them and do what HE sends them to do. We don’t get to tell angels to do anything!
You don’t have to say the “sinner’s prayer” but once. Maybe it’s time to do so?
Amen! Why is so many people are afraid to go to God directly? Why, when He has already told us we can approach the throne of grace through Jesus Christ and call Him ABBA (Daddy), do some people STILL imagine Mary or angels or “Saints” will give them a better chance???
http://www.ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/SPIRCATH.HTM
Chapter 7
Sorry, we didn’t have computers when I was growing up! I don’t have html skills yet! :)
Can you demonstrate anywhere in Scripture that prayers must be mentioned in the Holy Scripture in order for us to pray them?
I’m stunned that these evidently aren’t still included after every single Catholic Mass worldwide. What happened?
http://www.ewtn.com/
library/THEOLOGY/
SPIRCATH.HTM
Please forgive me,
Just once more. It shows up on my preview, but not on my post!
To all you patient FReepers: thank you! Chapter 7 should cover any questions you have about Catholics and intercessory prayer! Thank you!
It’s the laity that are saying these at our church.
Oh thanks for the ping! I did happen to see this briefly and thought of you too! :-D
Merry Christmas!
Thank you so much! For some reason, it gets to /li and stops there on my screen when posted. Sorry, I’m not sure why.
There are some beautiful thoughts and words in that prayer! I looked up the word Akatheist, and found a list of other lovely prayers to read, on Saint Jonah dot org. Thank you so much! God bless you!
We can also do both kinds of prayers, if we choose. We are not limited to an either/or, but we can pray directly to God, and we can ask others to pray for us as well. God's written word instructs us to pray for each other, and even though God knows exactly what we need before we ask, He still wants us to pray to Him anyway, as He has clearly revealed in His written word:
If the prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects, imagine the power the prayer of a holy angel has in its effects.------------------------------------------------------------
...pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.
James 5:16b------------------------------------------------------------
(I'm not sure why some people have trouble accepting go-betweens for intercessory prayers for others. Though He obviously does not need to, God often chooses to use created go-betweens to do His Holy Will, as He did when He chose all human beings as go-betweens to write every single word in every single "book" in the Bible, and He often chose to use angels as go-betweens, to deliver messages, for example, like you mentioned.)
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