Posted on 11/11/2014 7:05:04 AM PST by marshmallow
America's Catholic bishops came together Monday to project an image of unity, after a Vatican meeting on the family unleashed an uproar over the direction of the church.
Last month's gathering in Rome on more compassionately ministering to families featured open debate — alarming many traditional Catholics, who argued it would undermine public understanding of church teaching. Pope Francis encouraged a free exchange of ideas at the assembly, or synod, in contrast to previous years, when such events were tightly scripted.
At a meeting Monday in Baltimore, Archbishop Joseph Kurtz, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, signaled there was no conflict between a gentler approach and upholding church orthodoxy. Kurtz cited his home visits to parishioners, where he wouldn't give them "a list of rules to follow firsthand," but would instead "spend time with them trying to appreciate the good that I saw in their hearts," before inviting them to follow Christ.
"Such an approach isn't in opposition to church teachings. It's an affirmation of them," said Kurtz, who attended the Vatican gathering.
Cardinal Donald Wuerl of Washington, who also participated in the Vatican gathering, emphasized that last month's meeting was only the start of a discussion before a larger gathering on the family next year, where bishops will more concretely advise the pope on developing any new church practices. New York Cardinal Timothy Dolan said the divisiveness he read in media accounts did not reflect the collegial discussion inside the event.
"It was a synod of consensus," Dolan said. The pope, he said, has a God-given gift "for attentive listening."
The bishops made the remarks at their fourth national meeting since Francis was elected. While many Catholics have praised Francis' new emphasis on mercy over the culture wars, many theological conservatives have said Francis is failing to.....
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
If you would, read Revelation 18 with an open mind. It is a description of the fall of Rome and an angel is begging "my people" to come out of her before it's too late. I know every fiber of your being will resist the truth, but The Catholic church teaches error and pride is blinding it's followers. 1 Timothy 4:3 speaks of "doctrines of demons" forbidding to marry. There is just too much evidence that Catholics are following error to look away. At some point you have to evaluate if you love Jesus or the Catholic church. Jesus will not tolerate double mindedness. Just as worshiping Mary is forbidden and explained in 1 Timothy 2:5, and worshiping idols is forbidden even in the 10 Commandments even as Catholics have statues everywhere and are seen bowing and praying to them around the world. Worshiping relics and repetitive prayer is expressly mentioned in Scripture.
You say you must be on the right side because you are "attacked". Are you being attacked because of Jesus or because you support a false church? I'm certainly not attacking you, but exhorting you to read Scripture for yourself and use your own discernment to see if what you believe lines up with God's Word. Trying to prop up a false religion is too heavy a burden and always will end in failure. It's not the end of the world to admit a mistake has been made and repent. It's not about beating someone over the head , but about your salvation and your family's salvation. This isn't an attack, but a pleading to just consider what is plainly written in Scripture. In some cases it's easier to bring someone to Jesus from atheism than to convince a Catholic they are following the wrong path. The love of the church outweighs the love of Jesus in almost every instance. Just trying to convince someone Jesus had brothers and Mary had other children and Jesus died to cover her sins, is like pulling teeth, even when you show them the Scripture that says so.
God bless you and I pray you will at least read the Scriptures given and pray that the Holy Spirit will show you the meaning of said Scripture. Blind people cannot see and deaf cannot hear. Ask The Holy Spirit to open your eyes and ears to the truth. If you still see it your way, then fine. You have at least looked into it and not followed what you were told since birth. For me, Revelation was so plain I could not accept Catholic teachings, and in my mind, time is VERY short to choose. There are no popes, cardinals, and nuns, even mentioned in Scripture. It is a governmental system set up by men to rule men, just as Islam is not a religion, but a political system to rule men under a bunch of laws. When you realize Jesus wants your love and not a system of rules and regs. Telling you that you must be a Catholic to be saved is a lie from the pit when you understand Grace and only Grace. The priest can't forgive your sin, Mary can't do anything as Christ is our ONLY advocate in heaven and the Apostles are just men that served God. All believers are saints and don't need a vote from Rome. The real church was built on the revelation of the Holy Spirit, not on a man named Peter. The list of error is almost endless.
You are CORRECT in not paying a whole lot of attention to the Pope. Why WOULD you? The English are Anglicans, ruled, in name only by royalty...that king/queen being the HEAD of the Church of England. That king/queen is the "Anglican Pope." Nothing wrong with that. England's choice.
ALL that trial and tribulation because of Henry VIII and his quest for a son.
Yes, I do know that the Archbishop of Canterbury is the working head.
From Wikipedia:
The Archbishop of Canterbury is the senior bishop and principal leader of the Church of England, the symbolic head of the worldwide Anglican Communion and the diocesan bishop of the Diocese of Canterbury.
The current archbishop is Justin Welby. He is the 105th in a line which goes back more than 1400 years to Augustine of Canterbury, the "Apostle to the English", in the year 597.
On 9 November 2012 it was officially announced that Welby, then the Bishop of Durham, had been appointed to succeed Rowan Williams as the 105th Archbishop of Canterbury. His enthronement took place in Canterbury Cathedral on 21 March 2013.
And, Queen Elizabeth is STILL alive. She's only 88. HER MOTHER lived to be 101; the Queen Mother is in her PRIME!
She's the "Pope Benedict" of the Church of England.
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I do take note of the USA's Catholic bishops, whose positions, except on the pelvic issues, are identical to those of the Democrat Party, except in those cases where the Democrats are more conservative.
What are examples, "except for where the Democrats are more conservative," of those positions?
"Conservative Democrats" sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it? How are those particular Democrats "conservative" and who are they?
The entire "note" you take sounds a bit confusing to me. Perhaps it's the British versus the American translation. :o) Truth be known, our politicians often confuse me, BOTH parties.
I DO watch "Prime Minister's Questions" when I can catch them on the boobustoobus. They are MOST entertaining. They sure show how important public speaking and "thinking on your feet" are to the English.
Those are good things as they create THINKING minds that have GOOD and LOGICAL reasons for their thinking.
God bless you and yours.
>> If you read Revelation with an open mind, you will see the Catholic Church is the harlot that fornicated with all the kings of the earth.
ROFL! You need a whole lot more than an open mind to interpret The Revelation that way... you need some good dope, a bong, and a fertile imagination.
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Catholics (and non-Catholics alike) often confuse or interchange these two words, but they express two different, but closely-related realities.
Forgiveness is the easy one to define, because most people are more familiar with that word. Forgiveness means that God Himself has pardoned a sin. God forgives sins absolutely--meaning that He does so entirely in His own authority, however priests in Confession grant us forgiveness ministerially, as representatives of God-Who-Forgives.
We all know this. But what many don't quite grasp is that absolution is not synonymous with forgiveness.
Absolution is the juridic act of the Church by/through which sins are remitted/removed and/or the punishment due to sin is likewise removed.
The difference is that key phrase "a juridic act of the Church."
Absolution can only be imparted by a priest who acts as the minister (representative) of the Church. This is the exercise of the "Power of the Keys" given to Peter to bind and loose--and which is extended to priests as ministers of the Church and (in a certain sense) representatives of the Successor to Peter (Matt 16:17)
Absolution also reconciles us to God and the Church. Again, we all know this, but perhaps it's better to say what that does not mean.
When we are forgiven by God, we aren't necessarily reconciled to Him and we are not reconciled to the Church--the spiritual effects of the sin still remain.
Let's say that someone commits a serious sin, but later repents of it. He asks God for forgiveness. An infinitely merciful and loving God forgives that repentant sinner. The sin itself has been pardoned by God.
But the sin also separates the sinner from the life of the Church; more or less, depending upon the severity of the sin. The greater the sin the greater the separation. Absolution (as a juridic act of the Church) returns the sinner to the ordinary life of the Church, and reconciles him to the Church. Absolution remits the penalty due to sin.
In Confession, priests forgive sins ministerally, as representatives of Christ (from John 20:23) and also absolve sins as ministers of the Church (Matt 16:17).
The John text (after the Resurrection, "whose sins you forgive are forgiven") is the biblical source for forgiveness, but the Matthew text ("Thou art Peter...whatever you bind on earth...) is the source for absolution.
BOTH of these go together to form the single reconciliation which is the reality of the Sacrament of Confession.
Whenever we are absolved, we are also forgiven. We can be forgiven by God at any time.
Absolution, this can only happen through the ministry of a validly-ordained priest who also has jurisdiction from the Church to hear Confessions (i.e. grant absolution)--that's where the reference to Matt 16 comes in.
It's not enough that he be validly ordained, but in order to exercise that Power of the Keys, the priest must be a representative of the Successor to Peter (jurisdiction).
[cloudmountain: That is, a Protestant minister or reverend, NOT Catholic, cannot absolve sins.]
Forgiveness is "included within" absolution (for lack of a better way to put it), because naturally, whenever we are reconciled to God and the Church, forgiveness is a necessary part of that reconciliation, else we would not "be reconciled."
However, there are times when we might be forgiven by God without being absolved--most especially with regard to minor venial sins. When it comes to these minor venial sins, we are not always in need of reconciliation, because the smallness (yes, that's a real word) of the sin results in such a minor wound that only a minor healing is necessary.
We can see this forgiveness and absolution expressed in the words of absolution in Confession.
1. In the Ordinary Form: "...may God grant you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins..." the "pardon and peace" means forgiveness
I IMAGINE that this "Ordinary Form" might be used in battle when a wounded soldier KNOWS that he is dying. The Catholic Chaplains KNOW who the Catholics are and is THERE for those dying Catholic men for just this reason.
Nothing wrong with giving those soldiers some much needed PEACE in their last moments of life.
2. In the Extraordinary Form this is more clear:
When the penitent is finished confessing his/her sins, saying when, how many/much, etc., s/he says the "Act of Contrition." There IS a specific prayer for that too, of course.
THEN the priest says:
May almighty God have mercy on you, forgive you your sins, and lead you to everlasting life.
R: The person confessing says: Amen.
Next he raises the right hand toward the penitent and says:
May the almighty and merciful Lord grant you pardon, absolution, and remission of your sins.
R.: Amen.
Form for Absolution:
May our Lord Jesus Christ absolve you. And I, by His authority, release you from every bond of excommunication (suspension) and interdict, in so far as I am empowered and you have need.
And now I absolve you from your sins: in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
R.: Amen.
THEN the priest gives the repentant and forgiven sinner PENANCE, always (in my experience) in the form of prayers.
I suppose/imagine that in days of yore penance might have been far more severe--sackcloth and ashes types penance. I don't know. I might have known that at one time but have forgotten.
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Yes, only God can forgive sins. We know that from DAY ONE. We also know of God's mercy.
We obtain FORGIVENESS from God alone, via the authority given by Jesus to His authorized priests, the FIRST Vicar of Christ on earth being St. Peter.
It was no "accident" that Peter ended up in ROME and didn't stay to convert in the middle/near east. Rome was the very center of the, then "civilized" world.
The LEGEND of that is that Paul went to Rome to convert the GENTILES because Rome was the center of the Rome-conquered world [and Jesus was rejected by His own people]. No one believed Paul because he had not been one of Jesus' Apostles. So Paul sent for PETER to come to Rome.
The earlier Jews had sacrifices (burnt offerings) to God for forgiveness of their sins. The need for forgiveness of sins SEEMS to be part of human nature, doesn't it?
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Regarding your call sign: Were you a fan of "Chuckles the Clown"? He was the unseen wonderful clown though he did finally bite the dust on one of the later episodes of The Mary Tyler Moore Show.
I'm sure that you are a GOOD Christian, (and a smart once, since your are here on the FR) and believe me when I say God bless you and yours.
**The Rev. Tom Rosica, a Vatican press office official for English-language media, attended the American bishops’ assembly. He said an in interview that Catholic church leaders and lay people, as well as those outside the church, are reacting strongly to the Vatican meeting because they aren’t accustomed to addressing issues the way Francis advocates.
“The pope made it clear doctrine would remain untouched,” Rosica said.**
Source or is this just your opinion?
Alright, how do you interpret it, or do you just name call? What denomination has been the right arm of kings and dictators for thousands of years? What city is on 7 hills? Why did Peter call Rome "Babylon?"
Ignore it at your own peril. It's not just me thinking this stuff up. It has been interpreted this way for at least 200 years or more.
ISLAM is the whore of Babylon. The Antichrist will come out of Islam. And I didn’t call you a name.
The Antichrist and the False Prophet are not the same. The whore of Babylon is the False Prophet from the city on 7 hills. That’s Rome. Islam hasn’t fornicated with all the kings of the Earth. The Antichrist could be a Muslim, but must be from the old Roman Empire. Read Daniel.
The Vatican is not on one of the seven hills.
It is across the Tiber from the seven hills.
Read Revelation.
>> Read Daniel.
Of course. Read Ezekiel too. And The Revelation. And (believe it or not) Genesis.
If you want to learn from someone who has really studied eschatology, not only from Scripture but also from linguistics and the Koran, read Joel Richardson. He makes a compelling case that the “Roman Empire” origin of the Antichrist is mistaken.
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