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To: Colofornian
Mormon Secrets: What the Missionaries Don’t Tell

For the record ... Christianity is more a way of life than a religion for me and I do not condemn or condone those who choose another way.

“But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” Thomas Jefferson

What harm do Mormons inflict?

47 posted on 11/11/2014 5:54:47 AM PST by MosesKnows (Love many, trust few, and always paddle your own canoe.)
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To: MosesKnows
For the record ... Christianity is more a way of life than a religion for me and I do not condemn or condone those who choose another way...What harm do Mormons inflict?

Do you like Sulfur-flavored Jell-O?

49 posted on 11/11/2014 6:37:11 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: MosesKnows; All
What harm do Mormons inflict?

1.

Mormon proselytism isn't evangelism -- Mormonism itself describes its missionary system as proselyting -- and it focuses on the spiritually vulnerable/gullible:

As the apostle Paul was leaving the church of Ephesus, he warned them with this high-priority alert:

"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." (Acts 20:29-31)

Paul's cultural priority? (Defend against the false disciples who will proselytize the flock and draw away men unto themselves!)

Tell me something, MosesKnows: If you did something tearfully night and day for three years -- like Paul did -- do you think it's rather important?

Or will you continue to either let the flock be shepherd-free, or not care if they are?

So what? We're just to conclude, "Oh, the man who contributed a good chunk to the New Testament -- what does he know about cultural priorities?"

2.

From my study of world religions, sects, cults, I've concluded many are quite legalistic. Jainism, for example, is extremely so as a world religion. Mormonism, likewise, as a cult/sect.

Lds leaders impose law after law after law upon Mormons -- who must obey in order to be deemed "worthy"...
(1) You HAVE TO be obedient to all the commandments & ordinances of the Mormon god
(2) You HAVE TO tithe -- what Lds reference as the "Law of consecration"
(3) You HAVE TO obey the "Word of Wisdom" -- not drink coffee, etc.
(4) You HAVE TO follow the law of eternal marriage...get married -- sorry, no never-married single people allowed
(5) You HAVE TO have as many children as possible
(6) You HAVE TO perform temple work for the dead
(7) You HAVE TO perform endowments essential for this highest degree of salvation
(8) You HAVE TO be a member of the right church (Lds)
(9) You HAVE TO receive & perform the rites and ordinances established by that church
(10) You HAVE TO follow the 'prophet'
(11) You HAVE TO observe the law of the fast
(12) You HAVE TO -- as if it wasn't a "want to" -- "pray often"
(13) Instead of treating repentance as a God-given gift, you HAVE TO treat it as a "law" -- and if you commit the same sin over again, it nullifies any previous "repentance" you did regarding that sin, treating it as if you never repented
(14)You HAVE TO have Joseph Smith's consent to enter into your highest afterlife

And then, of course, there's the obvious Biblical laws (10 commandments) -- which the apostle Paul warned didn't lead to receiving the Spirit:

1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is EVERYONE who does not continue to do EVERYTHING written in the Book of the Law.” (Gal. 3:1-6, 10)

Bottom line: The LDS are the "rules oriented" ones: The purity and perfection we seek is unattainable without this subjection of unworthy, ungodlike urges and the corresponding encouragement of their opposites. We certainly cannot expect the rules to be easier for us than for the Son of God... (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 28)

Just look @ all the "rule extensions" Lds have imposed upon their followers in order to make it to the highest degree of afterlife...That is 19th-20th-21st century legalism!

******************

Finally, just as the Apostle Paul gave priority to "wolves"...so Jesus gave priority to calling out the legalists:

Yet you need to realize that Jesus Himself hardly gave free passes to the legalists of that time (the Pharisees). Note: Mormonism is the most prominent legalism of our era.

Note some of Jesus' words toward them...and then answer the Q, "Are you going to accuse Jesus of 'loathing' and being 'vitriolic' toward religious legalists?"

Verse consideration #1: Jesus called the Pharisees "blind guides" (Matt. 15:13). Somebody who is a guide is more involved with others than people who simply have a bad heart condition. The fact is these teachers of the law were the spiritual surgeons of their day. Would you want such a blind surgeon operating on you? The issue we're talking about here is not simply that the Pharisees' own heart condition was poor -- but that they were involved in teaching, guiding many others! We need to understand the cultural dimension of this in light of Luke 11:52 -- that the Pharisees took away the key to knowledge.

Verse consideration #2: [Yet another example of exported legalism] Matt. 23:4: They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on OTHER PEOPLE'S shoulders..."

Verse consideration #3: You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. (Matt 23:13)

The Pharisees consistently rejected the Lord's teaching of truth; and Jesus, much to your apparent chagrin, criticized them rather openly for it. Here's yet another example:

Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” (John 8:46-47)

You need to even look @ the broader context of the last part of John 8 -- where Jesus references the Pharisees as "children of the devil."

I don't think somebody can be more "harsh" in speaking the truth than to say to a group of religious people:
(a) "You don't belong to God"
(b) And the reason you don't belong to God is because you don't hear the truth He speaks ("hears what God says")
(c) And you reject the truth I'm telling you right now ("you do not believe me...why don't you believe me?")
(d) And on top of that (the broader context of John 8), you are of your father, the devil, whose native language is lies!

How did the apostle Paul deal with the legalistically-minded Galatians? Paul referenced the legalistic Galatians twice as "foolish" and once as "bewitched" a gentle exhortation?

Vitriolic?

More Jesus on the legalists:

Matt. 15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matt. 16:12: ...guard against the yeast...against the TEACHING of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Luke 11:52: ... you have taken away the key to knowledge.
John 8:44,47: You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies…The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
Matthew 23:2-4: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

Mark 7:6-8,13: He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ 8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” …13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

Matthew 23:2-7, 13-34 : 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

************************

I think the question for "way of life" Christians is: Why aren't you more "Christ-like" in His priorities as mentioned above?

Why cherry pick as to what Christ is like -- ignoring the reality that as Jesus comforted the afflicted; he likewise afflicted the religiously comfortable?

77 posted on 11/11/2014 10:32:55 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: MosesKnows
For the record ... Christianity is more a way of life than a religion for me and I do not condemn or condone those who choose another way.

It appears that you'll not make it to the upper levels of management.

86 posted on 11/11/2014 11:28:22 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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