EWTN - The Journey Home - November 10, 2014 - Dale Ahlquist, convert from being a Baptist

Would you like to address post #252?

Luther mistranslated Romans 3:28; look at your KJV. You do use the Textus Receptus and KJV, right ?

Since you referenced post 252, I checked the link and discovered even though they admit Luther was an antisemite they try to coach Protestants in how to defend him. He inspired the Nazis to implement his recommendations. List from that site:

Recommendation One: “First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly—and I myself was unaware of it—will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.”[131]

Recommendation Two: “Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them the fact that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.”[132]

Recommendation Three: “Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.”[133]

Recommendation Four: “Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: “what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord.” Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people’s obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 [:18], “You are Peter,” etc., inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.”[134]

Recommendation Five: “Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let them stay at home. I have heard it said that a rich Jew is now traveling across the country with twelve horses—his ambition is to become a Kokhba—devouring princes, lords, lands, and people with his usury, so that the great lords view it with jealous eyes. If you great lords and princes will not forbid such usurers the highway legally, some day a troop may gather against them, having learned from this booklet the true nature of the Jews and how one should deal with them and not protect their activities. For you, too, must not and cannot protect them unless you wish to become participants in all their abominations in the sight of God. Consider carefully what good could come from this, and prevent it.”[135]

Recommendation Six: “Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God’s blessing in a good and worthy cause.”[136]

Recommendation Seven: “Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen. 3 [:19]). For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.”[137]

These seven recommendations give this writing its infamy. Countless web pages, all with the goal of “exposing” Luther as an anti-Semite usually highlight this section. It is the lowest of point in Luther’s work. Scholars have chastised Luther:

He advocated the murder of Jews :
In the treaties he argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,[2] afforded no legal protection,[3] and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.[4] He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them".[5]

Here they have perhaps the last letters to his wife mentioning the Jews. This is the man who is foundational to the Reformation, and who translated Sola Fide into the Bible. If he is not in heaven the Reformation is illegitimate. XI. 1546: Luther’s Last Words About The Jews

The English edition of Luther’s Works contain three volumes dedicated to his letters (spanning the entirety of his career). Very few of those letters include anything substantial concerning Luther’s attitudes toward the Jews. However, two letters written to Luther’s wife Katie (from the year in which Luther died) reveal Luther’s deep hostility toward the Jews.

February 1, 1546. “To my dearly beloved mistress of the house, Catherine Luther, a doctor, the lady of Zölsdorf [and] of the pig market, and whatever else she is capable of being; Before all else, grace and peace in Christ, and my old, poor, and, as Your Grace knows, powerless love. Dear Katie. Yes, on the way, shortly before Eisleben, I became dizzy. That was my fault. Had you been here, however, you would have said that it was the fault of the Jews or their god. For shortly before Eisleben we had to travel through a village in which many Jews are living, [and] perhaps they have attacked me so painfully.[151] At this time over fifty Jews reside here in the city of Eisleben. It is true that when I passed by the village such a cold wind blew from behind into the carriage and on my head through the beret, [that it seemed] as if it intended to turn my brain to ice. This might have helped me somewhat to become dizzy. But thank God now I am well, except for the fact that beautiful women tempt me so much that I neither care nor worry about becoming unchaste. After the main issues have been settled, I have to start expelling the Jews. Count Albrecht is hostile to them and has already outlawed them. But no one harms them as yet. If God grants it I shall aid Count Albrecht from the pulpit, and outlaw them too.” [152]

Feb 7, 1546. “I think that hell and the whole world must now be empty of all devils, who, perhaps for my sake, have congregated here at Eisleben, so hard has this affair run aground. There are also Jews here, about fifty in one house, as I have written to you previously. Now it is said that in Rissdorf—close to Eisleben, where I became iii during my journey—there are supposedly about four hundred Jews living and working. Count Albrecht, who owns all the area around Eisleben, has declared that the Jews who are caught on his property are outlaws. But as yet no one wants to do them any harm. The Countess of Mansfeld, the widow of Solms, is considered to be the protector of the Jews. I do not know whether this is true. Today I made my opinion known in a sufficiently blunt way if anyone wishes to pay attention to it. Otherwise it might not do any good at all. You people pray, pray, pray, and help us that we do all things properly, for today in my anger I had made up my mind to grease the carriage. But the misery of my fatherland, which came to my mind, has stopped me.”[153] One can see why the Nazis regarded Luther as the greatest antisemite of his time.

"lol! Well, in my six decades I’ve known plenty of Protestant Christians, mostly Baptist. But I still don’t know any, not one, who specifically uses any kind of KJV study guide."

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The Baptists use this "NKJV" Study Bible:

"Holy Bible - Baptist Study Edition"

"...those particular examples come from this famous protestant..."

- - - - -

"Who came BECAUSE of THESE infamous Catholics...

Pope Stephen VI..."

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Is that a true statement?

Did Jimmy Swaggart really say that?

Or did you just make that up yourself, Elsie?

Some Baptists may use study guides. I’ve lived among Baptists for over half a century, and I never saw that study guide. It’s completely misleading to say “the Baptists” use any one particular guide. We use our Bibles. Seriously, I’m not kidding.

Peace,

SR

NKP_Vet?

Luther was not a Pope.

The discussion addressed the use of sola. And Luther’s use was not new as pointed out.

Some probably do.

I didn’t know there was a Pope named Jimmy.

Martin Luther was barely out of the seminary when he started his demands and putdowns of the Catholic Church. He had no credibility back then and he has no credibility now. He called the pope the anti-Christ. End of story. It’s a wonder he didn’t lose his head.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinions - no matter what the facts are.

Dispute my facts. Tell me he was a not barely out of the seminary and had no authority whatsover to demand the Catholic Church change anything. Who died and made him pope.
Why did he despise James? He despised James because James didn’t agree with Luther’s justification by faith alone. Then he had the unmitigated gall to change the WORD OF GOD by taking out the word “alone” from the Bible! Absolutely unbelievable he didn’t lose his head.

Luther was not a Pope. The discussion addressed the use of sola. And Luther’s use was not new as pointed out.

Of course it was new, and foundational, which is why he must be defended at all costs so the religion which depends on him being saved, despite his plotting the destruction of the Jewish people, not be illegitimate. Just return Matthew 25 for a full refund.

So ultimately it comes down to a matter of scriptural interpretation doesn’t it?

Does one accept the teachings of the Catholic Church with its 2000 year history, the traditions accepted by the early Church Fathers, the doctrine of the Eucharist as analyzed and established through the centuries by eminent theologians from Augustine to Aquinas to Newman to Benedict as well as several leading Protestant theologians who have converted to Catholicism, the lives of saints, martyrs, and stigmatists who have lived and practiced the Catholic faith, and a faith with a consistent Credo that has spread to the four corners of the world

or

do we accept the mudslide of eclectic interpretations offered by every Tom, Dick and Harry, and pastor of every corner street Foursquare Church, street preachers like the Grahams, Schullers, Jim Jones, David Koresh’s; Jimmy Swaggarts, TD Jakes’s, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, or for that matter any person who cracks open the pages of the Bible and purports to offer a definitive interpretation, or like many of the mainline Lutheran, Episcopalian, and Presbyterian Churches whose pastors may be married homosexuals and lesbians, because of what “they” believe is “their” interpretation of the Bible.

The question answers itself.

It’s obvious that you aren’t interested in my disputing your so-called “facts” since you haven’t read anything I have given you yet. Why should I waste any more time? Continue in ignorance, it’s nice and comfy there.

Nope..it comes down to what the Bible says. Everything a person needs to know to be saved is clearly written and, with the Holy Spirit as guide to all truth, anyone can know it. All that extraneous stuff Catholicism developed over the centuries either isn't part of the gospel or perverts the gospel. Continue to be impressed by celebrity, I'll stick to Jesus, the ONLY one that deserves all glory, honor and praise for HE alone is the Savior of my soul.

You having problems connecting the dots? If the EVIL popes listed had been decent Catholics; there would have been nothing for Luther to PROTEST to try to get corrected.

No 95 things; thus no Protestants.

No Protestants; no Baptists.

No Baptists; no Jimmy Swaggart.

Heck; ol' Jimma might have been a Catholic priest in another timeline!

It’s a wonder he didn’t lose his head.

Yup; Catholicism is a LOVING denomination alright!

I just LOVE the way you can make the Appeal to Authority sound SO good!

“what the Bible says”

Exactly, go ask David Koresh, Joel Osteen, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Billy Graham etc.