The Development of the Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony [The OTHER WORLD Series]

DialogueJournal.com ^ | 1987 | David John Buerger

[Colofornian]

...FOR FAITHFUL LATTER-DAY SAINTS, the temple endowment ceremony is one of the most...powerful ordinances received in mortality. One authoritative source called it the temporal stepping stone which all people must pass to achieve exaltation with God the Father and Jesus Christ...1 ... 1 Gospel Essentials, rev. ed., sunday school manual (Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), 1979, 247.

[SNIP]

Another element of literalism disappeared in 1927 when kissing over the altar during vicarious sealings for the dead was abolished.129

Probably the greatest twentieth-century catalyst to increase the number of vicarious endowments was Heber J. Grant's emphasis on temple work. Endowments performed per member during Grant's administration increased substantially. From 1898 to 1912, vicarious endowments averaged .11 endowments per member per year. From 1912 to 1930, the average increased to .38. The decade of 1930-40 saw the annual average again jump to .62. ...this average dropped to .34 by 1945 and remained there through the end of 1950.

...members of the church's computer planning committee realized during the late 1950s and early 1960s, that, given the estimated 70 billion people who had been born on the earth, all LDS adults working in temples eight hours a day, seven days a week wouldn't be able to keep up with the world population growth, much less complete ordinance work for deceased ancestors. This concern has apparently not disappeared. 149 ... 149 See Church News 20 July 1986, 16.

[SNIP}

The 1970s saw a renewed emphasis on temple work. During the latter part of the decade, many stakes were issued endowment quotas by their temples. While less emphasis is now placed on quotas, expectations remain high. For example, active recommend holders living close to a temple usually are expected to average one endowment per month...

[teppe]

Oh, sorry, but are you referring to the three in one, one in three, though sometimes one, but never really one, but sometimes three, but never really three Creeds that you have placed in superiority over the bible.

....the one that all things biblical must conform to .... the Creeds that took public coercion and execution to establish.... the same Creeds that required early Christians to murder other Christians in order to triumph.

The whole manner that the Creeds eventually triumphed are a testimony of their falseness.

God DOES NOT establish his doctrine through emperor’s edicts and executions!

The thought that you would even believe that God would approve of the murderous manner that the Creeds eventually triumphed is insulting to God.

Throw away the Creeds and read the Bible! Christ is as he sayed, the Son of God. Quite trying to weasel Christ’s words.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

No Teppe. I didn’t say any of that.

Just reread my question and please answer which Christ.

[Rockwarf]

Believe it or not an lds person recommended freerepublic to me and I've enjoyed the discussions and posts. But the constant anti LDS stream is irritating. I challenge anyone to find a more patriotic, hard working, generous group of people. Of course I've found God fearing good people in all religions I've worked with. Why all the hate here? I'd venture to say that a large percentage of visitors here are LDS. I suggest that it is time for all of them to find another web page to support or make a new one. I know I'll be looking. Time to move on.

[Colofornian]

Believe it or not an lds person recommended freerepublic to me and I've enjoyed the discussions and posts...I suggest that it is time for all of them to find another web page to support or make a new one. I know I'll be looking. Time to move on.

ALL: Time for a little truth in context here.

First of all..."Discussions?"

Really, Rockwarf, is that what you call your FR posting history? Discussions?

ALL: Rockwarf has yet to post twice in the same FR thread!

(Rockwarf, next you'll be telling us that drive-by shooters park their cars in the middle of the streets of the neighborhoods they shoot up)

ALL: You see, Rockwarf posted once in 2007...for the ENTIRE year;
He barely got a post in before 2008 expired;
He didn't post at all in 2009;
He made up for 2009 tho -- keeping his one-post-per year average -- by posting twice in 2010;
He posted once in 2011...keeping that average going;
He kept his annual post going in 2012...getting one in for November;
He doubled his posts in 2012...a grand total of two;
And then this was the third post he's contributed in 2014.

Gee, Rockwarf. I don't know what FR is going to do with that massive vacancy you've left? Who's going to come along and provide another less-than-a-dozen posts over eight years to fill that gigantic gap you're leaving?

But the constant anti LDS stream is irritating...I'd venture to say that a large percentage of visitors here are LDS. I suggest that it is time for all of them to find another web page to support or make a new one.

Rockwarf, why not just say all of US -- (vs. sounding like you're some non-Mormon by using the word "THEM"?)?

Per Rockwarf's Feb 2013 post: "I'm LDS...
Post #29

(Rockwarf, you weren't trying to cater to the "I'm siding with the Lds via sympathy appeal" angle, were you? I mean, of course you're siding with the Lds! You're Lds!)

Finally, note that Rockwarf...like so many Mormons who have waded thru FR...don't ever seemingly want to engage on these issues. It's much, much easier to simply call the person who disagrees with them an ad-hominem "hater" -- and then just storm out of the room, screeching, "y'all come with me!"

I mean, you would think with so many of them having served two-year missions and having engaged in many discussions with people of other faiths, that they'd be better equipped to dialog. And to focus on the topic. The Mormon claims. What the scriptures say. Etc.

But that's just it: The Mormon Church doesn't equip its missionaries to dialog; rather it's proselytize. And, having dealt with many Lds missionaries, the tendency is that if you don't show an extended interest in becoming one of their belt notches, they move on to a weaker spiritual soul. One who's vulnerable.

[lewislynn]

Your obsession with Mormons is apparently a sickness

I do business with a lot of people of different faiths. Without a doubt the most honest and the most pleasant to deal with are Mormons. Catholics are the worst.

My good friend, also a business man, says when he goes to church he sits in the front row so he can turn around and see all the faces of the people he wouldn't do business with...I suspect you might be in that group.

[alexander_busek]

...members of the church's computer planning committee realized during the late 1950s and early 1960s, that, given the estimated 70 billion people who had been born on the earth, all LDS adults working in temples eight hours a day, seven days a week wouldn't be able to keep up with the world population growth, much less complete ordinance work for deceased ancestors. This concern has apparently not disappeared. 149 ... 149 See Church News 20 July 1986, 16.

Surely computers should be able to speed this process... But what happens when they complete their endowments?

Sounds like Arthur C. Clarke's The Nine Billion Names of God.

Regards,

[RginTN]

Since you’ve gotten a lot of criticism for examining LDS, I would like thank you for posting these threads. I’ve learned a lot from them.

I find it interesting that Mormons react like Muslims by calling critics haters when their faith is put in the spotlight for examination and criticism.

Keep up the good work!

[SkyDancer]

My dad gave me the book several years ago. Very good. Also Dr. Martin is on YouTube.

[SkyDancer]

To begin with, the Jesus of the Mormons was not conceived by the Holy Spirit, but by a sexual act between Mary and the Father in Heaven. When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who was the Father of Jesus?

"He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle (Body), it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father and son in succession…..Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven" (Journal of Discourses, 1:50-51)

Best read your own literature.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

The “other sheep not of this fold “ Jesus was referring to had to do with the Gentiles.

Jesus commissioned the Church to bring the Gospel to all nations, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that He ever appeared in America. NONE.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

mormonic placemarker

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

this post is a perfect example of why Mormons aren’t Christian and can never be accepted as Christians.

the mockery of the doctrine of the Trinity is foundational to the Mormon many gods belief.

One of the attributes of God is that you always existed, God is uncreated and a created being can’t become God. To the Mormon, this is heresy.

Jesus Christ ALWAYS existed, He is God.

Yes, please read the Bible. The Church has always, and will always exist until the end of the age. Contrary to what the false prophet Joseph Smith taught, the Church did not and can not become apostate. The gates of hell can not prevail against it.

False prophets on the other hand?? We are told they will arise and fool many........

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"Furthermore, as Mesoamerican archeology is blossoming it is becoming ever so much more parallel with the narrative of the Book of Mormon."

Mormonism: all hat, no Curelom...

"As dawn breaks over mesoAmerica, the trumpeting screams of the hairy curelom echo across the surrounding cites.

Iron-workers interrupt their production of vast metal works, cities that stretched from sea to shining sea hush in anticipation of another wonderful day in mormon-land.

Just last week, the false mormon Jesus had visited to let native Americans know they were really Jews! What a wonderful time to be alive!!!

Flash forward.

America today: If a Native American Curelom was watching, he would have a tear in his eye...

All original cities, vanished, leaving nothing behind - not even a cigar butt!

Not even a single foundation of a single iron-worker’s furnace remains.

Not even a single metal work produced here.

And, as it turns out, Cureloms didn’t have bones. Apparently, Cureloms had the structure of jellyfish and today, no evidence remains of their once proud reign!

Only the proud, savage cry of the curelom remains in the brains of mormons who “just believe”, despite any physical evidence.

Only the ring of the ancient iron-workers hammer echos in the minds of mormons who “just believe”, despite the amazing disappearance of millions of metal works.

Only the cheerful laughter remains in the minds of mormons, who insist millions of people lived in cities across America - because Joseph Smith said so!

As it turns out, they too, had the structure of jellyfish.

No bones.
No metalworks.
No cities.
No Cureloms.

A tear wells up in the corner of the imaginary Curelom, envisioned within the brain of mormons today.

And the Jewish Indians?

Gone. Replaced with imposters who no longer carry Jewish DNA!

Ah, but the piercing cry of the Curelom remains!!!

They will testify! Oh, how mormons will testify of the Curelom. Joe said!!!

[Colofornian]

Well, allow me to deal with the supposedly "substantive" claim you make prior to the unsubstantiated.

I do business with a lot of people of different faiths. Without a doubt the most honest and the most pleasant to deal with are Mormons. Catholics are the worst. My good friend, also a business man, says when he goes to church he sits in the front row so he can turn around and see all the faces of the people he wouldn't do business with...I suspect you might be in that group. [Empty claims made by LewisLynn]

As to your claim that "Catholics are the worst ever"...see details below that blows out of the water. Secondly, I have no reason to suspect that your "friend" or any of the other Mormons you've dealt with are people of integrity.

Why do I say that? Well, most Mormons have generally been great men (& women) of business in the last century or so when dealing with NON Mormons. (And I have Mormon extended family members)

BUT...Since (a) you are now projecting a comment to cover entire people ("people...Mormons. Catholics are the worst")...and (b) key Mormons have had a recent horrific track record dealing with affinity fraud.

I guess you just weren't aware of that, were you.

Can you fill me in any other religious sect that has less than 2% of the overall population (1.7%) -- that has launched at least $1.4 billion worth of fraud schemes vs. fellow sect members in a 2-3 year period?

If you only have time to click on one article link below...read this one: JOHN L. SMITH: Thieves in the temple: How 'affinity fraud' hurts LDS church members
Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal, Sept. 12, 2010 Be sure to read the comments of FBI special agent Cameron Saxey (who is Lds)...the article mentions how the Utah jurisdictional Securities Fraud Task Force was working on 100+ cases...meaning that $1.4 billion total doesn't tell it all!

Notice, too, I didn't take in a HUGE long chronological time period when I did less than a 40-month study of such affinity fraud.

The sad individual accounts [Indeed: Pray for the victims, most Lds]:

* All in the Mormon Family Mortgage Fraud [Re: Idaho fraud]
Source: Conservative Babylon.com, June 27, 2012

* Episode Detail: The Mormon Madoff - American Greed: Scams, Scoundrels and Scandals
Source: TV Guide.com re: series American Greed: Scams, Scoundrels, and Scandals, June 20, 2012

* Former LDS bishop gets jail, probation for massive fraud
Source: Provo Herald, June 7, 2012

* LDS Bishop Pleads Guilty To Fraud
Source: Kutv.com, June 7, 2012

* Utah investors caught up in alleged $170M fraud: SEC says 2 men committed fraud as they raised $170M to build Caribbean resorts, and that 250 of the 1,700 alleged victims are from Utah
Source: Salt Lake Tribune, May 31, 2012

* Beware of affinity fraud ‘predators’ who exploit trust, LDS spokesman warns
Source: Fraud College.org, April 2, 2012

* Former LDS bishop charged with fraud, pleads not guilty
Connecticut Criminal Defense Blog, March 29, 2012

* Former Mormon Bishop In Trumbull Charged With Investor Fraud
Source: Hartford Courant, March 27, 2012

* The LDS Church Issues a Strong Position on Affinity Fraud
Source: Utah Securities Fraud.com, March 7, 2012

* Affinity Fraud Called a Destructive Crime at Conference
Source: Lds.org, Feb. 20, 2012

* Church Representative to Address Fraud College [From the official Lds Web site]
Source: Lds.org, Feb. 15, 2012

* Affinity Fraud statement
Source: Official Mormon Newsroom.org, Undated (Early 2012)

* Father, son used Mormon connections to commit $220M Ponzi scheme (Utah case)
Source: Mormon church-owned KSL.com, Dec. 16, 2011

* Former LDS bishop cons elderly man out of life savings, police say
Source: Provo Daily Herald, Oct. 19, 2011

* Tag archives @Utahsecuritiesfraud.com: LDS Church

* Provo councilman Steve Turley charged with felonies [LDS High Council Member]
Source: Provo Herald, July 27, 2011

* Feds arrest St. George business man, philanthropist for mail fraud
Source: Mormon-church owned KSL.com, June 11, 2011

* Former LDS leader charged in fraud against Ute football coach, others
Source: Salt Lake Tribune, June 8, 2011

* Suspected Mormon Con Artist Pleading Guilty to $78M Scam
Source: Streetsweeper.org, May 31, 2011

* Mormon Madoff? Source: Financial Fraud Law.com, May 27, 2011

* A Fraud Played Out on Family and Friends
Source: New York Times, May 26, 2011

* St. George investor ordered to jail [ex-Lds bishop]
Source: MidUtahRadio.com, April 15, 2011

* Using trust to steal (Utah affinity fraud)
Source: Ogden (UT) Standard Examiner, Feb. 3, 2011

* JOHN L. SMITH: Thieves in the temple: How 'affinity fraud' hurts LDS church members
Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal, Sept. 12, 2010

* Local political gadfly arrested for exploiting elderly woman
Source: Provo Daily Herald, May 4, 2010

* Preying on the faithful: Though Mormons often victims, LDS church skips fraud-prevention event
Source: Salt Lake Tribune, May 2, 2010

* Kaneohe swindler is sentenced
Source: Honolulu Star-Bulletin, April 6, 2010

* Investors with troubled firm have Mormon ties
Source: Austin American Statesman, Jan. 16, 2010

* Man Who Defrauded Fellow Church Goer Pleads Guilty
Source: www.connect2utah.com (KUTV) Jan. 7, 2010

* Lindon Man Accused of Trying to Kill Witnesses to Alleged Scam
Source: MidUtahRadio.com, Nov. 19, 2009

* KSL 5 News investigates affinity fraud
Source: KSL.com Nov. 9, 2009

* Mormon victims are caught up in $50M scam to sell gold bullion
Salt Lake Tribune, Sept. 18, 2009

* LDS Church returned $200K in Southwick Tithing
Source: AP, Sept. 14, 2009

* Merriman's church donations may be tained [Momon Ponzi schemer's tithe monies ill-gotten?]
Source: Denver Post, April 24, 2009

* Man Who Defrauded Fellow Church Goer Pleads Guilty
Source: Fox News, April 8, 2009

* Calif. Man Charged with $40 million Ponzi scheme
Source: AP, March 20, 2009

*************

So here's the question after you review the above? Are you going to backtrack are your "projection" claims -- at least as to how many Mormon financial people are treating fellow Mormons? Are you going to backtrack are your empty claim that "Catholics are the worst ever" (financially speaking?)

If not, your credibility is shot on this thread...and from here on in any posts I will receive from you.

[truth_seeker]

The Daily Obsessional. The regulars here just might have some mental health issues.

[Colofornian]

Now...for your slam.

First of all, since I can't recall having ever interacted with you, how long have you been psycho-analyzing complete strangers over the Internet? (We'd like to see your license and track record on that one!!!) :)

Secondly, Why was the Son of God so obsessed over mankind to become a mere man...what C.S. Lewis once described as being like a man becoming a frog to save all the frogs of the world.

Thirdly, to get back to what this thread is about -- not me, the poster...but what Mormons do in Mormon temples...here I spend a few hours spending time on something and you ignore the entire forest...the $millions of dollars & billions of hours searching the world over for records of dead people so that they necro-baptize them...

As a matter of fact, there IS no people group that's ever lived more obsessed with the dead than 21st and 20th century Mormons...rather fitting since we've been talking about Mormonism's obsession with dead these past two weeks.

So thank you for your lead-in allowing me to put an exclamation point on that!

[Colofornian]

Post #37 is for you as well...

Tell us...how many man-hours and $ have you spent on genealogy for the purposes of focusing on the dead in Lds temples?

How many endowments for the dead have you done in Lds temples?

The article mentions stakes being given endowment quotas. Has your stake met it, or not?

ALL: Silence as a response to these questions could mean that we have yet another Mormon not wanting to confess how much time & $ they spend focusing on the dead.

[Elsie]

And the Jewish Indians?

Why... they’re right HERE!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_India

[Elsie]

And the Jewish Indians?