Replies

>> “In verses 3, 5, and 7, they translate the sayings of Jesus using the term *born again*.” <<

.
In that discussion, it is clear from the particular words used in the Greek, Yeshua’s word differing from the word Peter used, and the two words having completely different meanings, that they were not speaking of the same thing.

Yeshua spoke of a literal physical birth into an incorruptible body at the last trump, while Peter spoke of the Mikva that brings about the beginning of our Earthly spiritual journey. Neither of these cases create scriptural justification for a belief in “instantaneous eternal guaranteed salvation.”

There is no such guarantee to be found anywhere in the scriptures, no matter how severely one may misinterpret the words of any of the apostles.

Enduring to the end, as Yeshua declared, and as all of his apostles affirmed in their epistles, is required of all.

The Douay and the KJV differ not one bit on this fact, nor does any other version that I have ever read.
.

Yeshua spoke of a literal physical birth into an incorruptible body at the last trump, while Peter spoke of the Mikva that brings about the beginning of our Earthly spiritual journey. Neither of these cases create scriptural justification for a belief in “instantaneous eternal guaranteed salvation.”

Jesus was telling Nicodemus about a SPIRITUAL birth, He couldn't have been clearer:

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” (John 3:5-8)

The Lord God spoke of it to the Jews as in Ezekiel 36:26,

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

And as Paul said in Titus 3:5, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Add to these verses and others such as Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:20 and 2 Corinthians 1:22 that tell us we are sealed with the Holy Spirit right here and now through faith, and you can understand that we certainly ARE given assurance of our salvation and the indwelling Holy Spirit IS our guarantee.

Thanks e-s for that very insightful post

Yeshua spoke of a literal physical birth into an incorruptible body at the last trump, while Peter spoke of the Mikva that brings about the beginning of our Earthly spiritual journey. Neither of these cases create scriptural justification for a belief in “instantaneous eternal guaranteed salvation.”

There is no such guarantee to be found anywhere in the scriptures, no matter how severely one may misinterpret the words of any of the apostles.

Jesus: I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28)
This means that we cannot snatch ourselves from His hand, no? It also means a guarantee especially when the previous verse is taken into consideration; as for instantaneous prior in the chapter He said:

“Very truly, I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and bandits; but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the gate. Whoever enters by me will be saved, and will come in and go out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

Entering is an instantaneous event: one instant one is outside, the next inside.

Now, what you're probably thinking is that I'm mad because the Bible clearly says things about predestination — like in the first chapter of Ephesians: just as he [God] chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before him in love.

You're forgetting some things though:

God is Bigger Than (before, outside, unbound) time; this is because for time to exist there has to be at least two atomic objects which can change in relation to each other, as that is essentially time: a measure of change.
If God is outside time, than everything He chooses is before the foundation of the world (and during and up-to-that-point) and after time ceases.
Jesus was and is God — (John 1:1-2, 14) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. […] And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth.
Therefore Jesus himself is outside of time and knows who are His sheep, those that know his voice, whom the father (a) chose, and (b) gave to Him before the founding of the world.
Even in this there is acknowledgment of a willful act:
(John 1:12-13) But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God.