Priestly Ordination To Men Alone

walkinginthedesert ^

[walkinginthedesert]

In a historic vote, the Church of England today approved female bishops. The vote was far from even being close. Women will be bishops in the Church of England after a historic vote in the General Synod, ending 40 years of not being able to do so. An overwhelming 81 per cent of Synod members backed the change, during the sitting in York, and 75 per cent of the laity supported the move.

There will no doubt be a great push of the Feminist movement to use this event to further their causes for whatever reasons they may be. There will also be a great push for other Christian groups to do the same in following the Anglicans, allowing women to be bishops, or even priests. However this will not and cannot happen in the Catholic Church. Any faithful Catholic knows that the ordination of the priesthood is reserved to men alone, and is a matter not merely of discipline or small t Tradition, but rather one which constitutes capital T Tradition which cannot change. The question is why? What makes this type of change impossible amongst the Catholic Church? Also what is the big deal with women being priests or bishops for that matter?

The reason that women cannot be priests is theological and obviously historical as well. In his Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, Pope Saint John Paul II talks about the reservation of priestly ordination to men alone. He mentions that it is not in the authority of the Church to ordain women priests, he states “I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitely held by all the Church’s faithful.”¹

The Nature of Priestly Ordination to Men Alone

1) A priest acts in "persona Christi” He is another Christ. Christ was a man and by that very nature a women being a priest would be incompatible. (The nature of the priesthood)

2) The scriptural accounts regarding the Gospels, of Christ choosing his apostles only from amongst men (The Scriptural Basis)

3) Throughout the centuries, even up to this day, the Church’s living and teaching authority has held that the exclusion of women from the priesthood is in accordance with God’s plan (The Tradition of the Church)

A priest acts in “persona Christi” he is literally a second Christ. The son of God became flesh as a man, and therefore the priest’s maleness is essential to his priestly role. It is also to be held that although equal in dignity, the very nature of man and woman is different.

The fact is that women and men though equal in dignity in the eyes of God have different functions according to their vary nature. For example, “men were created to be focused more in the exterior, while women in the interior, men tend to look more on the physical, women more in the human person, men are mostly the provider, women the nurturer of the family, men are paternal, women tend to be maternal”²

This helps explain that the reservation of priestly ordination to men, is by no means a sort of anti-women attitude that the Church has against women. No rather it has to do with the very nature and the differences of those two natures between male and female.

Mary DeTurris stated “Pope Saint John Paul II has written and spoken often about the equality of women, their unique gifts and their role in the Church. The pope affirmed women’s central importance in history and said the Church believes the Gospel message of Christ is “ever relevant” when it comes “to setting women free from every kind of exploitation and domination.”³

DeTurris further explained that the role of the Virgin Mary was drastically different from that of the Apostles and Disciples. DeTurris stated “ The fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, and Mother of the Church, received neither the mission proper to the apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the non-admission of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity, nor can it be construed as a discrimination against them”⁴

The role of women in Church in Church and in the faith itself, is to be pursued by following in the footsteps of Mary. Mary grew in sanctification through her own personal holiness, by doing the will of God in her life. Her ceaseless prayers, for the Church and her own holiness in her daily life is basically that of the women’s role.

Tradition and Scripture

First and foremost Saint Pope John Paul II states in his Apostolic Letter Ordination Sacerdotalis that in the Gospels themselves, Jesus chooses his disciples only amongst men. He further states that this has been the tradition of the Church even up to the present day. Pope John Paul states:

"The Church holds that it is not admissible to ordain women to the priesthood for very fundamental reasons. These reasons include: the example recorded in the Sacred Scriptures of Christ choosing his Apostles only from among men; the constant practice of the Church, which has imitated Christ in choosing only men; and her living teaching authority which has consistently held that the exclusion of women from the priesthood is in accordance with God's plan for his Church”⁵Similarly the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

"Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination." The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry. The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ's return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible. (CCC 1577)

The Early Church and the Church Fathers

Ever since the early church, leading up to the second and third century, there were heretical groups of Christians that started ordaining women to work priestly functions. Various Church Fathers and councils quickly condemned this practice as contrary to the nature of the priesthood.

John Chrysostom

"[W]hen one is required to preside over the Church and to be entrusted with the care of so many souls, the whole female sex must retire before the magnitude of the task, and the majority of men also, and we must bring forward those who to a large extent surpass all others and soar as much above them in excellence of spirit as Saul overtopped the whole Hebrew nation in bodily stature" (The Priesthood 2:2 [A.D. 387]).

Hippolytus

"When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all" (The Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215]).

Council of Nicaea I

"Similarly, in regard to the deaconesses, as with all who are enrolled in the register, the same procedure is to be observed. We have made mention of the deaconesses, who have been enrolled in this position, although, not having been in any way ordained, they are certainly to be numbered among the laity" (Canon 19 [A.D. 325]).

Council of Laodicea

"[T]he so-called ‘presbyteresses’ or ‘presidentesses’ are not to be ordained in the Church" (Canon 11 [A.D. 360]).

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Notes:

1)Saint Pope John Paul II: Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (Section 1) http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/1994/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

2)Fulton Sheen: (A talk given by Archbishop Fulton Sheen in his Life Is Worth Living series)

3)Mary DeTurris: Why Women Can't Be Priests http://www.ewtn.com/library/issues/whywomen.txt

4)ibid

5)John Paul II op.cit (section 1)

[Ransomed]

The type of women who would make good priestesses realize they can’t become priestesses in the Church. It’s the ones who would make bad priestesses that invariably think they can. Funny how that works. I mean it’s right there, try to find one woman of any faith who is way into things like abortion, divorce and remarriage, bc within marriage, and ‘gay marriage’ that also thinks women shouldn’t be priests in the Catholic Church.

Freegards

[Hostage]

Why was Cicero’s post in #12 deleted?

[felixandbowinkle]

sounds good..and Roy Masters of the fhu.com is one Jew who has returned and also embraced Jesus.

[ravenwolf]

Where does the scripture say that Peter was a priest? and where does it say Jesus ordained him as one?

Nor arguing yet any way, just want to know.

[CharlesOConnell]

Peter was one of the Apostles present at the Last Supper when our Blessed Lord Jesus instituted the Holy Eucharist with the command “Do This in Memory of Me”, thus initiating the Apostles into the most Essentially Priestly role.

[Campion]

Where does the scripture say that Peter was a priest?

1 Pt 5:1 - The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ ...

The Greek word "elder" is "presbyter," from which we get the English word "priest".

[xone]

.but there are plenty of women that would do a better job

They may be more faithful, may be better at Gospel exposition, may be more personable, but clergy isn't a woman's job. Praying for better male shepherds is the way to fix the problem, as well as getting rid of the bad ones.

[felixandbowinkle]

nope..getting good men like Roy Masters to help churches would work! But most of them are too busy judging him!

[Arlis]

Been studying the Bible for almost 50 years in much depth. Priest is always/only used in two ways in the New Testament: referring to a Jewish priest, or the Lord Jesus.

Only one time did Paul use the word about himself, Romans 15:16, where he says he was ministering “AS a priest”, not that he WAS a priest.
I’ll admit that is an arguable point - but you can’t build a whole doctrine on one verse where the meaning is in question.

Welcome you to show me one scripture using the word “priest” in reference to any of the apostles or servants of God in the NT.....

BTW - I am not Protestant.......sorry

[xone]

.getting good men like Roy Masters to help churches would work!

Yes, you were speaking of apostates, ole Roy would be the chief among them.

But most of them are too busy judging him!

Christians are supposed to exercise judgment especially in their clergy, clowns like Roy are a big reason. One of Satan's minions, he is best kept far from Christians. Pray for the benighted doughheads under his spell.

[vladimir998]

“Welcome you to show me one scripture using the word “priest” in reference to any of the apostles or servants of God in the NT.....”

The word elder is used. “priest” is an English word which actually comes from the Greek word “presbuteros” which means “elder”.

“BTW - I am not Protestant.......sorry”

If you claim to be a Christian, there are only 5 possibilities:

1) Catholic
2) Eastern Orthodox
3) Oriental Orthodox (i.e. non-Chalcedonian)
4) Protestant
5) a non-Christian sect which uses the name “Christian” but is not in fact Christian (i.e. Mormons, JW’s, etc.).

So, which are you?

[Romulus]

No idea. It was totally innocent.

[ravenwolf]

“Do This in Memory of Me”, thus initiating the Apostles into the most Essentially Priestly role.

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I don`t see how that shows Peter being ordained a Priest.

The Greek word “elder” is “presbyter,” from which we get the English word “priest”.>>>>>>

Titus 1
5
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

6
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

7
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God;

The above scripture shows plainly that Paul is talking of appointing elders to the position of Bishops, and also in 1 Timothy to deacons.

I believe there is a big misunderstanding of what an elder is.

I don`t think an elder would be higher in authority than a bishop or even a deacon.

[felixandbowinkle]

Roy helps so much with his Be Still silent prayer...very simple...to break the spell of sin. Something the church has dropped the ball completely on! Roy is a Jew who shows us the pathway to Jesus...the church does not...mostly.

[Cicero]

No idea. Well, it’s not the end of the world.

[CynicalBear]

>> It is a Jewish practice that ended when our High Priest came in the flesh and made all believers priests.....<<

That is a scriptural truth.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

In the Old Testament it was the priest alone who could approach the throne of God. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice and that veil separating us from the Father was torn in two.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

We can now go boldly before the throne of God having been covered by the blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

[CynicalBear]

>>The Greek word "elder" is "presbyter," from which we get the English word "priest".<<

In total error I might add.

[xone]

Roy is a Jew who shows us the pathway to Jesus.

Roy is a charlatan to put it nicely. Royaniaty has no Christ.

the church does not...mostly.

Can't make up the mind? The Holy Spirit leads men to Christ

[Kandy Atz]

I have no dog in this fight since I have no ties to this denomination, or its religious traditions. God’s Word should trump any religious tradition, no matter how tightly people cling to it. I know in my own life I have had to deal with some personal bias when it comes to females preaching, but I would gladly take a Spirit-filled woman called by God in a pulpit any day over some of what commonly appears there. It should not be what I want though, but what God wants. Whether male or female, if they are not called by God or anointed for the ministry, they should not be there. God’s got too many salesmen and counselors trying to be preachers, and too many folks that were called to preach running in the opposite direction.

This one passage lays the foundation for understanding the role of women in the Body of Christ. Note especially the 28th verse.

Galatians 3:24-29 (KJV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Body of Christ has many members, and if Believers are being led by the Spirit, God places each member into the body in their proper place for the edification of the Body. Our placement should not be by our choice, or religion’s choice, but according to God’s Divine Plan and His guidance - Jesus is the Head, and ONLY HEAD of the Body. (Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12)

Note how often women played a role in ministry in the Bible:

The woman at the well acted as an evangelist at Sychar, bringing her whole village to Jesus. (John 4)

Women were the first to spread the Good News of Jesus’ resurrection. (Matthew 28:1-10, Luke 24:9-11, John 20:16-18)

The promise of a Spiritual outpouring was for both sons and daughters, servants and handmaids. (Acts 2:14-21, Joel 2:28-31)

Philip the evangelist had four daughters who prophesied - which edifies the Church see 1 Cor 14:3-4. (Acts 21:8-9)

In Romans, Paul lists several women who had big roles in the Church:
Phoebe, Romans 16:1 - which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea.
Priscilla, Romans 16:3-4 (KJV) - my helper in Christ Jesus and had a church in their house with her husband Aquila. She and her husband mentored Apollos in Acts 18.
Paul names several women among saints and brethren - Mary, Julia (Romans 16:6-16)

Paul writes that Euodia and Syntyche are his genuine yokefellow, who have toiled along with me in the spreading of the Gospel. (Philippians 4:2-3)

Paul writes about women who publicly pray and prophesy. (1 Corinthians 11:5)

Weigh the two prohibitions against women in ministry (1 Corinthians 14, 1 Timothy 2:11-15), against the Spirit and Truth found throughout Paul’s writing TO the Church - Romans through Thessalonians. There should be no contradiction. Either we are all ONE in Christ, or we are not.

Even in the Old Testament there were women involved in ministry - Miriam Exodus 15:20, Deborah Judges 4:4, Huldah the prophetess 2 Kings 22:14 & 2 Chronicles 34:22, Noadiah the prophetess Nehemiah 6:14, not to mention the important roles played by Ruth, Esther, the prophesies of Elizabeth and Mary in Luke 1 and Anna in the Temple in Luke 2.

If God can preach through a donkey, I think He can find a place for an anointed woman of God.

[Kandy Atz]

Excellent response.