...as they seem little more than self certain shouting matches.

Pay closer attention; as one side has LOTS more EVIDENCE for it's position.

I may be wrong but if this thread was posted prior to 1978, you might have said:

“So whether or not you embrace or even like the Mormon faith, show no sympathy to such scoundrels as these BLACK MEN, because only human suffering results from their actions.

They are not Mormons. They are progressives. And they should not just be turned out, but flogged in the public square, like the rest of their kind.”

Why would the, Reid has received awards for being the example of what mormonS are.

On line polls are useless junk masquerading as science. And the LDS like Catholics recognize God made male and female for a reason.

I dunno, the LDS seems pretty happy bringing sodomy to the Boy Scouts

You equate sameness with equality. Equality is an American idea that posits that a person is free only if he or she is an isolated individual.

Most societies and religions see people as part of a complicated social web, where we rely on family for our wellbeing. The family is grounded on a biological reality, that women have babies and women and children need protection to survive. The LDS are not the only ones who hold these ideas. Confucius pointed out that strong families made a strong society 2000 years ago. True, women are less free than men in families, but blame biology.

Get rid of this idea and you have the need for socialism.

I may be wrong but if this thread was posted prior to 1978, you might have said:

Some folks may not know to what you are referring...

Pre 1978:

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."
"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."
"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)

1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.

Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.
The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."
(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).

When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."
(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

Some folks may not know to what you are referring...

Post 1978:

Official Declaration—2

To Whom It May Concern:

On 30 September 1978, at the 148th Semiannual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the following was presented by President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:

In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.

President Kimball has asked that I now read this letter:

June 8, 1978

To all general and local priesthood officers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints throughout the world:

Dear Brethren:

As we have witnessed the expansion of the work of the Lord over the earth, we have been grateful that people of many nations have responded to the message of the restored gospel, and have joined the Church in ever-increasing numbers. This, in turn, has inspired us with a desire to extend to every worthy member of the Church all of the privileges and blessings which the gospel affords.

Aware of the promises made by the prophets and presidents of the Church who have preceded us that at some time, in God’s eternal plan, all of our brethren who are worthy may receive the priesthood, and witnessing the faithfulness of those from whom the priesthood has been withheld, we have pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful brethren, spending many hours in the Upper Room of the Temple supplicating the Lord for divine guidance.

He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that flows therefrom, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color. Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood to insure that they meet the established standards for worthiness.

We declare with soberness that the Lord has now made known his will for the blessing of all his children throughout the earth who will hearken to the voice of his authorized servants, and prepare themselves to receive every blessing of the gospel.

Sincerely yours,

Spencer W. Kimball

N. Eldon Tanner

Marion G. Romney

The First Presidency

Recognizing Spencer W. Kimball as the prophet, seer, and revelator, and president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is proposed that we as a constituent assembly accept this revelation as the word and will of the Lord. All in favor please signify by raising your right hand. Any opposed by the same sign.

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous in the affirmative.

Salt Lake City, Utah, September 30, 1978.

Even though I rattle your cage so much??

Because of it. That's what makes conversation educational.

When you speak with your own words, rather than cut & paste html, you are frequently eloquent.

He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy
___________________________________

Oh so just like when the Mormon CEOs begged the angry Mormon gods to allow black men to have the priesthood, they are now busy begging the Mormon gods to allow women to also have it...

no wonder bishop Willard cried in relief and thankfulness in 1978 when the Mormon gods finally changed their minds and said OK

Get ready for buckets of tears from bishop Willard this time on LIVE TV on The View when the Mormon gods allow women to break through Willard’s “glass ceiling” and also have the Mormon priesthood..or will they be called “celestial virgins” ???

Oh no that was those 40 extra “wives” of Joey’s

You equate sameness with equality. Equality is an American idea that posits that a person is free only if he or she is an isolated individual. Most societies and religions see people as part of a complicated social web, where we rely on family for our wellbeing. The family is grounded on a biological reality, that women have babies and women and children need protection to survive. The LDS are not the only ones who hold these ideas. Confucius pointed out that strong families made a strong society 2000 years ago. True, women are less free than men in families, but blame biology. Get rid of this idea and you have the need for socialism.

The Judeo-Christian culture we find in the Old and New Testaments likewise highlighted and reinforced both gender distinctivene and strong gender diversity-within-family unity... [for the unity part, see Gal. 3:28: 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.]

Yet what we see in that Scriptural Judeo-Christian culture would have zilcho room for allowance by the Mormon Elite male leaders.

For example, we find female prophetesses in Luke 2:36 (Anna) & Acts 21:8-9 (evangelist Philip's four daughters). Philip and his four daughters would have been frankly ex-communicated in a Mormon culture!

Posters should consider being careful in "faulting" the Holy Spirit for giving this gift to females in those circumstances, or other spiritual gifts that the apostle Paul highlighted in numerous New Testament passages.

I mean, What next? Will posters find fault with with Israel allowing Deborah to be a Judge-leader -- claiming it's some sort of socialistic or communistic conspiracy? Or how about Old Testament Esther serving as an intercessor where no man had the inroad (or seeming courage) to proceed?

Both the Judeo-Christian foundation -- and the eventual Protestant culture that emerged -- reinvigorated the New Testament foundation for the priesthood of all believers.

Does 1 Peter 2:4-9 apply ONLY to males? In verse 4, do...
...only males "come to" Christ?
Are only males "chosen by God"?
Are only males "precious to Him"???

In verse 5, do only males constitute what makes for God's "spiritual household"??? Because whoever Peter is describing as those who come to Christ, called by Him, precious to Him, and constituting God's spiritual household are that "holy priesthood."

4 As YOU come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 YOU also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
8 and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”[d] They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
9 But YOU are a chosen PEOPLE, a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, a HOLY NATION, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a PEOPLE, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

In verse 9 above, Peter again references this "royal priesthood" alongside words such as "people" and "holy nation" and "special possession."
Are only males "people"?
Are only males a "holy nation?"
Are only males a "special possession" of God's?
Are only males the one who "declare the praises of" God?

Hardly.

C'mon. Posters can't be this ignorant of our Judeo-Christian foundation or Protestant culture and traditions, can they? Martin Luther recognized women as part of the priesthood of all believers. So this is no "new" socialistic push.

Btw...see also Revelation 1:6...for there also is a reference to "us" in that passage as the priesthood...does that then mean males only reside in the "kingdom" referenced there...?

I may be wrong but if this thread was posted prior to 1978, you might have said: “So whether or not you embrace or even like the Mormon faith, show no sympathy to such scoundrels as these BLACK MEN, because only human suffering results from their actions. They are not Mormons. They are progressives. And they should not just be turned out, but flogged in the public square, like the rest of their kind.”

Excellent point.

Some posters simply have yet to think through the cultural and historical inconsistencies of their claims.

When you speak with your own words, rather than cut & paste html, you are frequently eloquent.
_______________________________________

well we don’t like to boast about our lovely shy and modest Elsie but she’s eloquent all the time...

When you speak with your own words, rather than cut & paste html, you are frequently eloquent.

Aw... shucks...

lds recognize godS and male/female/female/female..

Just posted: Did Kate Kelly’s Local Leaders Follow the Handbook [Lds leaders circumvent established procedures]

As a follow-up to my post #51 in response to post #46, wanted to provide a broader Biblical and historical context.

Therefore, Vanity just posted: Time for new reformation re: understanding of Biblical priesthood, sainthood, & ordination [Vanity]

Yup...

...poorly catechized (Or whatever MormonISM calls it)

You equate sameness with equality.

Hogwash!