Posted on 05/24/2014 8:26:44 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
When I, a “cradle Catholic,” am accosted by a “born again” Christian, and asked whether I am “saved,” my thoughts usually go to St. Paul’s frequent admonitions to work out your salvation in “fear and trembling.” Even St. Paul, after having been raised to the “seventh heaven,” felt it necessary to chastise his body, lest he become a castaway. (1Cor. 9:27)
The conviction that one is “saved” may be the result of a powerful religious experience. (Catholics have those too!) But people sometimes interpret it like Freud, as something psychological, or just some friendly divine encouragement to keep trying, or perhaps as a sign of God’s mercy in spite of one’s sins.
Personally, I am convinced that, if two-thirds of the angels, who never had to suffer, and had clear insight into what would happen if they rebelled, were saved (Rev. 12:4) – certainly at least that percentage or more of us humans, working our way with limited vision through suffering and often messy lives and bad choices, will be saved. Of course, I try to stand clear of the “universal salvation” heresy of Origen and others, condemned at the Council of Constantinople in 543.
That said, it seems to me that Protestants are really missing out on the multiform assistance that the Church could provide, if they were open to it.
(Excerpt) Read more at thecatholicthing.org ...
“Hey, with all due respect...and I mean that sincerely, you are not speaking the truth.”
What I said is absolutely and irrefutably true.
“Please do your research on history before popping off with stuff like that.”
I have a PhD in history. I’ve done the research. There are only a tiny handful of Protestant groups (mostly Lutherans and Anglicans) who have any belief in the Real Presence to speak of. All Protestant groups through the dismissal of real bishops, altering their doctrines, altering their ordinations, and various upheavals, have lost whatever sacrificial priesthood they started with - as most of them readily admit. Hence, no sacrament. Hence, no body and blood. It’s just that simple. Only the Swedish Lutherans were claiming otherwise and they have take care of that themselves: http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/50-years-of-swedish-women-priests/
I did the research. Maybe you should do it before you falsely accuse others of not having done it. And hey, with all due respect...and I mean that sincerely.
“So when Catholics argue with Protestants it is, in essence, the same fight we have with atheists and muslims albeit on different battle fields. And quite frankly, the argument for unity for the expressed purpose of tactical advantage isn’t, strictly speaking, convincing. Particularly when one considers that it is the Reformation which has put us in this position”
Best post of the thread!
Why would this belief be abhorrent to God when Christ the second person of the Holy Trinity said, “This IS my Body.” This IS my Blood.”
Why don’t you believe the Bible? Or don’t you know the meaning of “IS”? Seems someone else didn’t either.
When we celebrate the covenant meal (communion), the elements are consecrated in prayer, asking through the power of the Holy Spirit that they may become the true body and blood of our savior Jesus.
It is announced that all BAPTIZED Christians may receive. If you do not understand what it is you are about to do, it is understood that you are not to receive until you've sat in consultation with a priest.
The consecrated elements are cared for in a respectful manner taking care not to desecrate in any way. After everyone has received communion, what is left of the consecrated elements are consumed or placed in a tabernacle on the alter for communion with elderly folks at home or in hospitals and such.
In the sacristy, there is strict instruction on the cleansing of the chalice and platen....nothing goes to a sewer. The water from the area where utensils are cleaned goes directly to the earth.
This IS the way the Anglican Church handles communion and the consecrated elements.
1) The vast majority don’t believe they do.
2) None of them can - for they have no sacrificial priesthood from Christ<<
Your PhD contradicts itself. You said, “exactly none of them do” which is an absolute falsehood. Not trying to start a fight, that blanket statement above is absolutely not true. Priest in the Anglican church do recognize apostolic succession as well and have it documented throughout the generations.
So, throwing out the PhD card does not impress and it doesn't prove you know a thing.
So, joke for ya. What do you call a doctor that made “D's” in medical school? Yep, you guessed it....a doctor. Jesus is probably up in heaven looking down on believers (you and I) and shaking His head, "after all these years, those poor saps still don't get it, forgive them Father." I am sincere when I say, have a blessed day my Christian brother.
Good last paragraph in that article.
He is correct. When I researched numerous mainline Protestant denominations before choosing Catholicism, most did not believe that communion was more than just a symbol.
Didn’t he say that the Anglican Church was an exception?
Episcopalians believe in transubstantiation as well.
It is my understanding that they believe in consubstantiation which is not the same thing.
“Your PhD contradicts itself.”
That’s not even a rational statement. A PhD can’t contradict itself.
“You said, “exactly none of them do” which is an absolute falsehood.”
No, what I said was absolutely and irrefutably true. Remember, what I said that to was this, “Most Protestant denominations that I’m aware of have communion with the body & blood.” EXACTLY NONE of the Protestant denominations have “communion with the body & blood”.
“Not trying to start a fight, that blanket statement above is absolutely not true.”
No, it is ABSOLUTELY true.
“Priest in the Anglican church do recognize apostolic succession as well and have it documented throughout the generations.”
False. Some “priests” in the Anglican church recognize it, but not all - precisely because of the contradictory theological teachings of Anglicanism. Also, it doesn’t matter what any Anglican claims: they have no priesthood. They lost their apostolic succession, changed their ordinal, lost their intention of a sacrificial priesthood, and ordain women. They’re done.
“So, throwing out the PhD card does not impress and it doesn’t prove you know a thing.”
Actually it shows any comment that I should learn history is idiotic because clearly I already know it.
“So, joke for ya. What do you call a doctor that made “D’s” in medical school? Yep, you guessed it....a doctor.”
No, you call him a former doctor because he’s guaranteed to lose his license with that level of performance.
“I am sincere when I say, have a blessed day my Christian brother.”
Thank you for that, and I hope you have a blessed day too. None of that changes the fact that you are wrong. What I said was absolutely and irrefutably true. It’s just that simple.
And none of them have valid orders as part of their denominational structure. They just don’t.
But so what anyhow. So are y'all saying that protestants are NOT Christians?
So are you guys insinuating that all protestants will go to hell? Come on man!
Folks can use scripture to support any position you want...catholic or protestant.
Again, Jesus came and died for this exact human stupidity. He knew full well we were (are) doomed without the guidance of the Holy Spirit and acceptance of HIS grace.
I have never understood why so many Christians take such pride in tearing down the faith of other Christians. Just bewilders me.
My grandad was a devote catholic. I chose Anglicanism because there are many things that give me pause in regards to the catholic church, but I still believe in my heart that the faithful of the catholic church will be my next door neighbor in heaven...or on the new earth. lol
I'm not going to get tangled up any further in all this. It is such nonsense that faithful Christians attempt to prove how much MORE faithful they are than the OTHER Christian or noncatholic or nonprotestant. Just nonsense.
See ya in heaven mister.
Thank you!
My Lord gave Himself as a perfect and complete sacrifice one time, so I have no need for any further sacrifices. He paid my sin debt in full roughly 2,000 years ago on that tree.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Now THAT is a precious gift to celebrate. That’s the best gift He could possibly give me or any other son of Adam. I am increasingly awed by His grace to me.
God never gave the (un)Holy Eucharist. That’s Rome’s invention based largely on a misunderstanding of the 6th chapter of John. The Roman mass is what happens when adherents of a religion take Scripture out-of-context. For want of understanding of metaphor, Rome makes a mockery of Christ and His perfect and completed work. What you view as a gift from God, I view as demeaning idolatry and blasphemy. The Christ Jesus of the Bible was no victim. He lived to die on that cross. He was the “lamb slain before the foundation of the world.” Rome’s celebration robs Christ of His glory and showers it on sinful men, her priests who pretend they can conjure Christ’s work through their utterances. It breaks my heart that Rome teaches sinners to genuflect before idols made with human hands. My Lord, the Lord of glory, can’t be sacrificed all over again and He’s not hanging dead on a cross. He has ascended to the throne of heaven where He sits at the right of the Father, ruling and reigning as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
In the coming days it is unlikely I will be around to delve into this any further, but here are some helpful links for anyone who wants to know more.
Salvation and the Sacraments (written by a former priest)
http://www.bereanbeacon.org/article/sorted/01_On_Catholicism/Salvation_and_the_Sacraments.pdf
Transubstantiation: Does the Eucharist Become the “Real Presence” - the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ?
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/eucharist.html
Explaining the Hersey of the Catholic Mass Parts 1&2
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1117101711406
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1117101713478
** “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—**
Yes, but do you let it get to your actions and influence the way you live?
“When I, a ‘cradle Catholic,’”
Perhaps, instead of being a “cradle Catholic”, you should attempt to be an “educated Catholic” and read the Bible. Believing made-up stuff is not doing you, or your eternal soul, any favors. Go directly to God’s Word for your information; all else is invented by men.
**that’s not what people asked the apostles.**
And how do you know this?
Are you saying that God the Father abhors God the Son in the Real Presence of the Holy Eucharist?
I don’t think so.
God loves.
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