Posted on 04/08/2014 2:41:22 PM PDT by OneVike
In yet another confirmation of the Bible’s accuracy, scientists have now confirmed what Scripture refers to as “the fountains of the deep.” In the days of Noah and the Ark, these large pools of water beneath the Earth’s crust burst forth onto the surface providing the massive amounts of water needed for the global flood judgment. What has once been a source of skepticism and mockery for those who doubt the Bible, has now been confirmed by secular scientists, again showing that although written over 3,000 years ago, the Bible’s description of the Earth and its natural properties are indeed accurate.
According to reports:
An international team of scientists led by Graham Pearson, Canada Excellence Research Chair in Arctic Resources at the U of A, has discovered the first-ever sample of a mineral called ringwoodite. Analysis of the mineral shows it contains a significant amount of water — 1.5 per cent of its weight — a finding that confirms scientific theories about vast volumes of water trapped 410 to 660 kilometres beneath Earth’s surface, between the upper and lower mantle.
“This sample really provides extremely strong confirmation that there are local wet spots deep in the Earth in this area,” said Pearson, a professor in the Faculty of Science, whose findings were published March 13 in Nature. “That particular zone in the Earth, the transition zone, might have as much water as all the world’s oceans put together.”
Ringwoodite is a form of the mineral peridot, believed to exist in large quantities under high pressures in the transition zone. Ringwoodite has been found in meteorites but, until now, no terrestrial sample has ever been unearthed because scientists haven’t been able to conduct fieldwork at extreme depths. (source).
The chart above shows where the water beneath the Earth’s crust is located.
The vast oceans of water beneath the Earth’s crust is precisely what the Bible describes in the first book of Genesis. In fact, prior to the flood of Noah’s day, it had never rained. The waters from the fountains of the deep, the water reservoirs beneath the Earth’s crust: provided water:
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. (Genesis 2:5-6).
This was the state of the Earth until the days of the flood judgment. And it would be two-fold: water came from the sky in torrential rain, and from the ground, as The Lord caused the huge oceans of subterranean water to burst forth and shoot onto the surface.
(Excerpt) Read more at Beginning And End ...And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. (Genesis 7:10-11).
When it comes to looking like ‘idiots to atheists’ you are the one who has assumed the wrong information and connected the wrong bits of information.
I’d say whatever you hold to be true about long ages and evolution is closer to the ‘straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.’ I’m really truly not worried about my annonymous reputation with atheists on a christian based conservative forum. Esp. atheists who may or may not be who they claim to be and who may or may not have true and sincere debate intentions.
Oh, sir, please do tell us all your critical thinking regarding hydrologcal sorting - I’m sure we’ll all be more informed by your in-depth analysis - sarc.
I doubt I'll tell you anything you don't already know. What they describe should be reproducible in a hydrology lab, and they can't do it.
I’ve seen very little if any true critical thinking re: hydroplate theory. Only things I’ve observed on the web and these discussion threads - take something out of context and create a strawman then mix in heavy amounts of ridicule and more miscommunications till the debates turns into a circus side show.
I guess we’ll find out someday just how wrong the Archbishop of Ussher was. But you’re in good company in FR; there is a large young-earth contingent here, so you all can congratulate one another on how right you are, and how wrong the day-age Christians are. Good day.
Since we somehow just went seamlessly from hydrologic sorting to hydroplate theory, I don't wonder.
Hydrologic sorting as I have encountered the term refers to Dr. Walt Brown’s hydroplate theory and the laying down of the fossil record and vast majorities of limestone and other sendimentary rocks in the aftermath of 40 days and nights deluge. Your mileage obviously varies or you just enjoy being obtuse.
Hydrologic sorting describes the water flow sorting the fossils into the layers we see today. That involves objects of a small enough size scale that you should be able to reproduce it in a lab environment.
Can you think of any reason that should not be reproducible?
So reading between the lines you claim that on a small scale experiment hydrologic sorting is not supported - totally debunked in fact - correct?
Even though you may need all the conditions of the flood [which I agree can never be reporoduced by mankind and God promises not to do allow another global flood again either] to prove that hydrologic sorting works as we see with the fossil layers.
Are you also unaware of the experiments Walt conducted that supported the hydroplate theory? How did these other small scale experiments differ. What assumptions were made? Blah blah blah etc and so on = it’s debunked b/c we claim so. Funny how often key data is not shared or even lost by the secular mainstream [eerily familiar example of AGW].
Furthermore, from the hydroplate theory Walt points out how the sea levels changed in the centuries following the global flood as there would have been many local floods that would also affect the layering of the fossil record depending of course upon where those local floods occurred and how it affected sedimentary layers that may or may not have been fully cemented in place. After the global flood, the hydroplate theory conjectures that all of the land masses would still be connected by land bridges and island chains - therefore specialized flora and fauna on each continent is also supported.
So since you can not re-create all of the conditions in the lab or some other small scale type of experiment you think that the theory is completely debunked - correct?
Have you even read the entire free online book at creationscience.com? Because your arguments fit neatly in the scenario I described in my prior post.
I said I believe they should be able to reproduce those results in a lab, and they haven't been able to. I asked if you could think of any reason they shouldn't be able to do that.
I examined the theory critically (which you claim you want more people to do), I offered an opinion and asked if you had any ideas I hadn't considered.
What more do you want?
There are myriad reasons why a small scale experiment can not reproduce the hydrological sorting found in nature. Worldwide there is no place where all the sedimentary layers are represented in the same exact order and thickness, sometimes layers are inverted, sometimes missing - so we know that local conditions have to play a major factor in the layering process [i.e. what sediments, what quantity, the state of the sediments - frozen, liquid, slurry etc.]. It’s all a big ‘cake batter’ where the recipe is subject to constant change due to what raw materials are present, in what quantity, state, temp, etc and so on].
I’ll be straightforward here - my goal was to get you and any other lurkers to see that any experiments in hydrologic sorting ARE suspect simply b/c of so many unknown factors [i.e. was the fossil from a global flood or local flood that came sometime afterwards? how long afterwards?, how does depth of fossil/sediment affect results? What sedimentary depths can be produced from these smaller experiments? How do you extrapolate those results to compare with a global flood that produced many varied layers of sediments that are more than several miles deep in most locations?].
Basically all historical science is suspect b/c you can not ever account for all the unknown conditions let alone re-create them - it is more guesswork than science. Historical science does not and can not ever follow the scientific method because of so many unknown variables.
AGW is simply another sign of the times we live in where the mainstream powers that be love to decide whether a story, research, theory, etc. - anything no matter how important or trivial gets reported, repeated, buried, ignored, or uploaded into the mainstream’s conscience.
The ‘lies can travel half-way round the world while truth is still putting it’s pants on’ - to paraphrase a famous quote.
So why am do I feel so strongly about the hydroplate theory?
Primarily b/c as a christian I feel certain that any and all true science will conform to the plain and simply stated facts asserted in the Bible. Also though, the Hydroplate Theory answers far more questions and assumptions than any other theory I have researched or encountered [and yes, I’ve researched loads of origins theories].
Earlier you stated this was a one-time event, the result of divine intervention, producing conditions that have never occurred before and never will again, and it cannot be known exactly what they were and they cannot be reproduced or studied. How is science supposed to "conform" to that?
Science needs to recognize it boundaries - it will never conform to that which is histoically based with few if any facts to be ascertained
I would envision most folks ‘conforming’ would work like a great murder mystery. Once you have enough of the facts the big picture becomes clear enough to conclude that there is only one origins theory which explains all or most all of the data points and all the others pale in comparison.
I never said nor implied that it was all divine intervention just left the possibility open. From my puny perspective God intervenes in our lives as little as possible [just like a good parent would do] in order to maximize our potential for growth. I’m also certain God would intervene [like a good parent] whenever the failures and short-comings are too much to be overcome naturally.
I happen to feel like we have collected enough facts or data points, but now the hard part is the paradigm shift where folks are so heavily invested in old wrong theories that it will take magnitudes more persuasion for those so entrenched than on a younger mind that did not have a chance to feed on or fully acept the mistakes of other theories. We see this problem today with the war on poverty, the drug war, the federal dept of ‘education’ and most esp. AGW.
Our biggest problem in the current age is far too many are willing to accept what the authority figures teach than apply critical thinking and outside the box approaches and solutions. We should love and evaluate debates but most seem to love to choose the ‘easy button’ - whatever is popular and widely accepted must be true.
Then why do you find hydroplate and hydrologic sorting theories so attractive? The conditions you've imposed dictate that they can never be tested and the facts surrounding them can never be known.
We still haves loads of facts and data points - far more than any generation preceeding us - with possible exception to generations prior to Noah’s Flood [all of that accumulated knowledge was lost so mere conjecture now].
We can and should continue trying to conform our ideas and theories to all of the data points - the big picture - there is only one tried, trustworthy and true reality.
Like millions of observations of constant decay rates of radioisotopes? I don't think you really mean that. There are no "data points" for massively accelerated decay rats, but you want science to conform to the idea that it happened, based on no evidence at all.
But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. (Genesis 2:6)
It seems your second question should precede the first. The hydrological cycle has water flowing up from water below, and i suppose if enough water spouted up from geysers than a mist would take the place of rainfall. And which did not negate sunshine, and man could live and thrive under such conditions.
Other creationists hold that Genesis 2:6 does not mean it continued rainless up till the Flood.
This discussed here http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v8/n1/did-it-rain here by creationists http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/flood_geology.html
The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again. (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7)
You have no starting position for those clocks - no one was there to observe the starting conditions. Furthermore, blind radio-isotope tests from the 1980 Mt. St. Helens eruption showed that some of the rocks which should have had there clocks reset were in fact well past a million years old.
Link below shows over 100 natural clocks that also completely contradict those long ages. But too many just want to ignore any contradictory data points.
101 Evidences for a Young Age of the Earth...And the Universe
http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth
Hydrologic sorting is complete nonsense. Hydrology sorts things based on density and shape (hydrodynamics). It has never on this earth sorted things based on classification. If hydrology sorted the fossils, the heaviest would settle on the bottom and the lightest on top. That is how every known example of hydrological sorting has worked. In that case, Tyrannosaurus Rex would be in the bottom layers of the sorting with his huge thigh bones (at least parts of him would), and little trilobites and smaller creatures would settle last in the top finer layers. In fact, you find them in just the opposite order every time. The biggest dinosaurs are in the top layers and the smallest and simplest creatures in the lower layers.
Hydrological sorting works that way in every case known to exist on the earth. So, stating it might somehow have worked differently during the flood is no different than stating a miracle happened and hydrology for the only known time on earth behaved as it never has been known to do. In that case, you might as well leave the hydrological sorting out and just go straight to the miracle because hydrological sorting argues solidly against the dinosaur bones being deposited and sorted by that method.
Lame thinkers also sometimes point out as someone did above that sometimes the strata of earth are in the reverse order. This is the exception that proves the rule. Whenever the layers are found in any other order, it is always the exact opposite order. Long ago, scientists explained that the earth likely folded over in some places, turning layers upside down, and this was later proven when the folds were discovered — the actual area where the earth’s layers bend back over double on themselves. So, the theory holds even in the rare cases where something, at first glade, appears to disprove it.
Never do you find the layers of strata in any other order. You simply find them in the one known order, either right-side-up or up-side-down. As for missing layers in some locations that is simply because not all sedimentary action was global. Within the large global events, leaving layers that are present in one order around the world, there are local events like small volcanic eruptions that add layers onto the global deposits. Sometimes a volcanic event is so large, it creates a layer of ash that covers the whole earth. Naturally, the layer is thicker in the direction of the prevailing wind and closer to the volcano. Other events are small and may barely cover parts of single state. But always the global layers are in the same order. So predictable is the pattern around the world that you can tell when a particular local volcanic eruption happened by which layers are directly below and above it.
In not one known case has hydrology ever sorted something by complexity and by its apparent relationship to other similar species, rather than by mere density and shape. (In other words a marble settles faster than a saucer made of the same ceramic material (shape), and lead settles faster than wood (density).)
Only a shameless scientist who is also a Christian would suggest hydrology can explain the sorting of fossils by classification into different layers of settlement with no scientific evidence to support that such a thing is possible and no common sense rationale to support how or why that would happen.
Knave - a dishonest man; DECEITFUL, TRICKY, JACK [in playing cards or did you mean humble. Sure didn’t seem humble by your post. Did you consider how much info you got backwards or was that purposeful?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.