[af_vet_1981]

To assert that this IS specifically speaking of Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, you have to accept what this passage and the rest says and the implications behind them.

By your reasoning and interpretation of Rev 12, of whom does Isaiah speak here ?

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Israel only gave birth to Messiah through Miriam. You can never separate her from Israel. She is Israel in the purity, holiness, faithfulness, and obedience God wanted from Israel. She is the Virgin of Israel, the very Israel of God, and she is in Revelation 12.

[Elsie]

By your reasoning and interpretation of Rev 12, of whom does Isaiah speak here ?

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

 

 

Next question.

[Elsie]

Israel only gave birth to Messiah through Miriam.

 

HMMMmmm that ol' Luke is STILL the joker; isn't he!

Leaves Mary out of the lineage!

 

 

^{Luke 3:23-38}

^{Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being....}

the son (as was supposed) of Joseph,
the son of Heli,
the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi,
the son of Melchi,
the son of Jannai,
the son of Joseph,
the son of Mattathias,
the son of Amos,
the son of Nahum,
the son of Esli,
the son of Naggai,
the son of Maath,
the son of Mattathias,
the son of Semein,
the son of Josech,
the son of Joda,
the son of Joanan,
the son of Rhesa,
the son of Zerubbabel,
the son of Shealtiel,
the son of Neri,
the son of Melchi,
the son of Addi,
the son of Cosam,
the son of Elmadam,
the son of Er,
the son of Joshua,
the son of Eliezer,
the son of Jorim,
the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi,
the son of Simeon,
the son of Judah,
the son of Joseph,
the son of Jonam,
the son of Eliakim,
the son of Melea,
the son of Menna,
the son of Mattatha,
the son of Nathan,
the son of David,
the son of Jesse,
the son of Obed,
the son of Boaz,
the son of Sala,
the son of Nahshon,
the son of Amminadab,
the son of Admin,
the son of Arni,
the son of Hezron,
the son of Perez,
the son of Judah,
the son of Jacob,
the son of Isaac,
the son of Abraham,
the son of Terah,
the son of Nahor,
the son of Serug,
the son of Reu,
the son of Peleg,
the son of Eber,
the son of Shelah,
the son of Cainan,
the son of Arphaxad,
the son of Shem,
the son of Noah,
the son of Lamech,
the son of Methuselah,
the son of Enoch,
the son of Jared,
the son of Mahalaleel,
the son of Cainan,
the son of Enos,
the son of Seth,
the son of Adam,
the son of God. 

[Elsie]

Israel only gave birth to Messiah through Miriam.

 

HMMMmmm that ol' Matthew includes a HOOKER and an ADULTERER in the lineage!!

---

 

Matthew 1:1-17

1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

² Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. ³ Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. ⁴ Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. ⁵ Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, ⁶ and Jesse begot David the king.

David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife of Uriah. ⁷ Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa. ⁸ Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. ⁹ Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. ¹⁰ Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon, and Amon begot Josiah. ¹¹ Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon.

¹² And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. ¹³ Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. ¹⁴ Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. ¹⁵ Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. ¹⁶ And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.

[boatbums]

Israel only gave birth to Messiah through Miriam. You can never separate her from Israel. She is Israel in the purity, holiness, faithfulness, and obedience God wanted from Israel. She is the Virgin of Israel, the very Israel of God, and she is in Revelation 12.

The birth of the Messiah certainly culminated in Mary's conception and delivery of the Son of God incarnate, but she was far from the ONLY one involved in that lineage. Perhaps you need to read Hebrews chapter 11 to appreciate the history of all the faithful ancestors that made up the lineage of Mary and Jesus.

If you insist that it is Mary spoken of in that chapter, may I assume then that you also concede that when Mary gave birth to Jesus she "cried out in pain as she was about to give birth"? Do you concede that pain in childbirth is part of the curse of sin? Do you concede that Mary had additional children/offspring and that the Dragon went off to wage war against them? These WERE parts that I forewarned you would have to be accepted should Mary actually BE the woman spoken of in Revelation 12. What do you do with them?