Posted on 03/19/2014 8:19:20 PM PDT by ealgeone
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION
PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
ARTICLE 9 "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"
Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church
963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503
Mary is the mother of God. Jesus is God. To deny that Mary is the mother of God is to deny that Jesus is God.
Mary has nothing to do with the Deity of Jesus Christ Son of God. It is you trying to stir an extrapolation for a title for Mary which never appears in scriptures. And for what purpose? For the Glory of God and His Gospel? No you don’t but to support the Catholic tradition of Mariology.
“Mary has nothing to do with the Deity of Jesus Christ Son of God.”
Agreed - except that when you deny that Mary was the mother of God you’re denying that Jesus is God. Mary only carried one child and He is God.
“It is you trying to stir an extrapolation for a title for Mary which never appears in scriptures.”
Like “Trinity” not all truths are contained in scripture. You should know that since what you falsely claim as a truth - sola scriptura - no where appears in the Bible.
“And for what purpose?”
Simple truth. To deny Mary is the mother of God is to deny that Jesus is God.
“For the Glory of God and His Gospel?”
Absolutely, for what you do is deny that Jesus is God - even if that is not your intention.
“No you don’t but to support the Catholic tradition of Mariology.”
Jesus is God. Mary is His mother. Mary is the mother of God. That’s not “Mariology”. It’s just undeniable truth.
Refusing to confess that Jesus is LORD is dead wrong.
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
John 2:3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
Acts 1:14 All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
Scripture is clear in calling Mary *the mother of Jesus*.
John 2:1 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
John 2:3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
Acts 1:14 All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
The Holy Spirit is clear in calling Mary *the mother of Jesus* in Scripture.
Then Catholicism teaches that Mary gave birth to God, putting her above God and making God a created being.
“Then Catholicism teaches that Mary gave birth to God, putting her above God and making God a created being.”
I’m catholic and I’m pretty sure they never taught us that. In fact I’m absolutely freaking certain of it. :-)
The Holy Spirit, through Elizabeth, calls Mary the mother of the Lord. Jesus is the Lord. Jesus is God. Luke 1:43
“Then Catholicism teaches that Mary gave birth to God,”
Mary did give birth to God - Jesus.
“putting her above God and making God a created being.”
Nope.
*Mother of God* does not say the same thing as *Mother of Jesus*.
Saying that God has a mother is essentially saying that Mary gave birth to God.
That would put her above God and make God a created being.
I have been told the rationale for changing the title given Mary, changing it from *mother of Jesus* to *mother of God*, that being that there was misunderstanding about the nature of Jesus. So Mary was renamed to try allegedly to try to correct incorrect beliefs about Jesus.
The problem is, it does NOT correct any incorrect belief about Jesus, it just compounds error because now Mary is being called something that she isn’t. It’s just causing further error.
If there was incorrect belief about the nature of Jesus, the best way of addressing that would have been to go back to Scripture, which Catholics on this board keep insisting that the Catholic church wrote, and correct it using Scripture, since Paul did say that ALL Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. THAT would have been the way to do it.
The problem of incorrect beliefs about the nature of Jesus doesn’t get solved by changing Mary’s title. The Holy Spirit called her *mother of Jesus* for a reason. no man nor any committee had any business trying to correct the work of the Holy Spirit.
Of course, I suppose that if men didn’t really believe that Scripture was God breathed and Holy Spirit inspired, then they would have no compunction about changing it, but that opens a whole ‘nother can of worms for the Catholic church because then they are undercutting the very thing they claim they wrote and use to give themselves their authority.
Could that be because Jesus and God are one in the same?
Just so you know they teach us that Mary is the mother of Jesus. If you have further doubts call any Catholic church and ask any priest. Its easier than putting yourself through this thread. :-)
Never understood why protestants have such a dislike for the mother of our Lord and savior. Really weird. Muslims honor Mary more than protestants do. Now that’s saying a hell of a lot. Protestants should be ashamed.
The scriptural evidence is multiple and clear for the Trinity. Mary as mother of God, an extrapolation from “Lord” once in the Gospel of Luke. Why I keep referring you to the lexicon. Following the lexicon the only conclusion based on your premise we can come to is Mary as mother of YHWH and thus the three Persons of The One True God.
Unless, you have other Scriptural evidence to support your premise?
If tradition is the basis for you claims just please state so.
“The scriptural evidence is multiple and clear for the Trinity.”
But there’s not a single verse that mentions the Trinity so any focus on the non-existence of “mother of God” is thus shown to be irrelevant.
“Mary as mother of God, an extrapolation from “Lord” once in the Gospel of Luke.”
That’s not what it is. Jesus is God. There are more verses which say that than Luke 1:43 saying “Lord”.
“Why I keep referring you to the lexicon. Following the lexicon the only conclusion based on your premise we can come to is Mary as mother of YHWH and thus the three Persons of The One True God.”
Your conclusion is false - and I directed readers to two sources which said “Lord” in Luke 1:43 means God. There are many other works that say the same thing I just see no reason to look them up and post them because it is so commonly known by orthodox Christians.
“Unless, you have other Scriptural evidence to support your premise?”
Where in scripture does it say Jesus ISN’T God? Nowhere. Thus, every verse that says Jesus is God automatically proves my point because Mary gave birth to God.
“If tradition is the basis for you claims just please state so.”
No. Tradition supports it, of course. What is the main point is common sense in light of all the scriptural evidence about Christ. He was divine. He had a mother. It’s just that simple.
Yep, that makes it all right (do I need to use the sarcasm tag?).
Where in the New Testament does any CHRISTIAN find a justification for such a punishment. My Bible is clear that God is the arbiter of all things. Nowhere in the New Testament do we see ANY advocation for a violent action against an unbeliever.
Of course, the Roman Catholic Organization only purports to follow Scripture.They use it where they wish and ignore it at their peril. It is obvious to anyone outside that cult that they are nothing better than the Muslims or any of the other religions that stand against God and advocate for a manmade structure. That is why they have no qualms about killing in the name of their god.
Blasphemy is clearly defined in Scripture, and it has nothing to do with speaking out in the face of the RCC, but instead is defined as giving utterance against God, not some manmade posers...
Ephesians 6: 10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. ...
This board is for conservatives.
Too simple for protestants to understand.
Apparently so. They seemingly cannot comprehend how Jesus is God and Mary is His mother.
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