Posted on 03/19/2014 8:19:20 PM PDT by ealgeone
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION
PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
ARTICLE 9 "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"
Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church
963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503
Romans calls Jesus the "firstborn of many brethren". If Jesus is spiritually your eldest brother, what does that make Mary?
Would you like to pick a teaching for discussion or should I just take what you've written as the final word?
Paul, in his letters, asks people to pray for him. That's "seeking intercession," any way you slice it. Was Paul an idolater?
Who was Paul asking people to pray to?
Just tell me if I have your logic down correctly. If Paul asked people to pray for him, then those people asked Mary to Intercede, and Mary tapped on the shoulder of Jesus (The One True Intercessor). Do we not have three intercessors now. Is that how Catholics approach the Father?
BRETHREN as in fellow believer.
Mary is a fellow believer. She was in need of salvation just as you and I.
come unto me all who are heavy laden....
sounds pretty welcoming to me.
SERIES AND HUGH QUESTION: Will God care more about you posting Bible quotes on FR, or how you treat Catholics (or anybody else for that matter)?
Mary cannot bless us.
She can do nothing for our salvation.
We are not to adore her or venerate her.
Did God use Mary in a special and unique way? Yes.
Was she a sinner like us? Yes
Did she have need of salvation like us? Yes
anything beyond that is outside of the Bible and based on man’s tradition.
I thought the whole purpose of this board was to discuss beliefs and learn?
If we are sharing and advancing God’s Kingdom and sharing the Truth about Christ, then I think He’s ok with that.
How is this different than having a conversation with someone at a coffee shop?
Now you're just making it up out of whole cloth. This would be the Gospel according to eagleone (or is it Pope Eagleone, I?). Can you cite anyone in history who is recognized as a serious theologian who has promulgated such a thought? Luther? Aquinas? Augustine? Anyone?
Q: “Is this the official teaching on Mary?”
A: Yes
We are not to adore her or venerate her.
Luke 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
“Hail Mary, full of grace”
Perhaps your Bible doesn’t say it quite that way, dear one, but who can be greeted by an angel in this manner — unless they were sinless — full of grace.
Did you miss the message of the angel? Thank goodness Mary didn’t and said “Yes” to the angel’s greeting and announcement (The Annunciation of the Lord.) For she became the Mother of Jesus, fully human, fully divine.
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Mary isn't God or like the Father to be worshiped, but she is the Mother of Jesus, His Son and our Savior.
To my understanding, and I'm shooting for the smaller, "be as children" sense of wonderment rather than the Phariseean approach, purpose and need to win arguing the details, she would have to be as purified as a human can be by the Father Himself for this mission and purpose.
Of all in the Biblical story, who comes close to such favor? So, when looking at all of the various flavors of Christianity, I think the Catholics have the best understanding regarding Holy Mother Mary.
For me, these interfaith Cain and Able and Phariseean arguments chase the "be like little children" mentality away, while placing limits on understanding God and His/our Holy Family and limits our recognizing the prophetic signs around us now.
I believe she had a mission in life and has a mission now to prepare the world for her Son's return, hence the sightings, warnings, tears of blood, etc.
God bless you!
Sorry about that...
Ealgeone,
15 promises their Lady (Mary) gave for praying the Rosary- taken from the How to Pray the Rosary instruction booklet...
Whoever shall faithfully SERVE ME (MARY) by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive signal graces.
I promise MY ( MARY) special protection and the greatest graces to all who shall recite the Rosary.
The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell; it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.
It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, those souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
The soul which recommends itself to ME (MARY) by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.
Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries, shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.
Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
Those who are faithful in reciting the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the saints in paradise.
I (MARY) shall deliver from purgatory, those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.
You shall obtain all you ask of ME ( MARY) by the recitation of the Rosary.
All those who propagate the holy Rosary shall be aided by ME ( MARY) in their necessities.
I ( MARY) have obtained from My Divine Son ( some Greco Roman diety with the similaritynof Tammuz) that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death.
All who recite the Rosary are MY ( MARY) sons, and brothers of My only Son Jesus Christ. ( greco roman substitute for the Lion of Judah)
Devotion to MY (MARY) Rosary is a great sign of predestination.
Lots of I, me, my from their LADY...
Roman Catholics are in denial... sad substitute anti messiah cult calling themselves the One True church of the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...
The protestants in large numbers reject this, but on the same hand have no problem following that mother church’s calendar (Gregorian), their man made holy days (christ’s mass and easter) or their sabbath (The sun’s day) and even a Greco roman Latin name Jesus for the Messiah of Israel , which we know in English to really be Joshua.
And I don’t think protestant daughter churches are far enough away from their ‘mother’ church... but they have ‘givens’ in their ‘truth’ that they got from their mother and can’t break from it...
Come out of her....
It’s a good thing we Catholics don’t adore and serve the statues we make then!
Because that’s the point of that commandment. It’s saying, don’t make statues AND adore (serve) them (meaning the statues).
It’s NOT saying don’t make statutes PERIOD. It can’t be saying that. Or else Mount Rushmore, the Washington Monument, and even GRAVESTONES people put to commemorate their beloved dead are all idolatrous.
And speaking of the gravestones, some of which do have likenesses of the dead (presumably in heaven) on them, when people visit a graveyard and kneel “before” the gravestone they aren’t worshipping the gravestone, rather they are showing respect and devotion to the one they love.
That’s not idolatry either, just like when Catholics, on occasion, kneel before statues of the Saints.
This has all been explained before, but of course, I’m going to guess (I cant know for sure since I can’t read minds but I’ll bet I’m right), you are still going to insist “It IS worship of a statue, because some BOW before them and not just kneel”.
To that I would reply, “Irrelevant “. Because a simple physical act doesn’t change what’s in a person’s heart, and that is what God judges when it comes to the sin of idolatry. Otherwise, I guess we’re under the Law!
I see nothing further to add, as that’s the entire “debate” as it has always gone around here, ad nauseum, time and time again. Those who insist we Catholics are idolatrous evidently won’t stop (even given the perfectly reasonable apologetic above) and the Catholics won’t stop, not committing idolatry, but loving and honoring the Saints in Heaven.
I just posted this because no one had chimed in already (probably too sick of doing it over and over again) and I had the time now to do it.
But go ahead, if you wish, INSIST you know what is in our hearts if you must. I won’t be responding further.
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