Posted on 02/12/2014 6:12:29 AM PST by PhilipFreneau
This is a discussion about the term "elect" or "election" found in the bible. I believe the elect are a combination of the remnant of Israel from the days of Christ and the apostles, and the holy men of old. I base this on several direct scriptural references:
This verse implies Christ is the elect:
"Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles." (Isa 42:1 KJV)
In these verses Israel or Judah is the elect, but could also be interpreted as Christ:
"For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me." (Isa 45:4 KJV)
"And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there." (Isa 65:9 KJV)
There are many implications, such as:
"In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory." (Isa 45:25 KJV)
"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God. For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness." (Isa 10:20-22 KJV)
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call." (Joel 2:32 KJV)
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace." (Rom 11:1-5 KJV)
Recall that Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel:
"… I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Mat 15:24 KJV)
And when he sent his disciples out, he sent them to the lost sheep:
"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease… These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Mat 10:1, 5-7 KJV)
To add a time context, Jesus said this:
"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." (Mat 10:22-23 KJV)
Christ gathered his elect from both heaven and earth:
"And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." (Mark 13:27 KJV)
The following verses are very telling: they certainly rule me out as one of the elect:
"And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:7-8 KJV)
"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;" (Isa 61:1-2 KJV)
Who was Christ sent to avenge? It appears to be the prophets, apostles, saints, and, in general, the blood of the righteous. It also says the vengeance would occur in the generation of those he was talking to:
"Woe unto you [scribes, Pharisees, lawyers!] for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation." (Luke 11:47-51 KJV)
"For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled… Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22, 32 KJV)
Therefore, I conclude the elect were his servants: the prophets, saints, apostles, and holy men of old (for example, the patriarchs;) and they were all gathered together within the generation of Christ and his disciples.
Philip
Jesus said they are “those who do the will of my Father.”
:: I conclude the elect were his servants: the prophets, saints, apostles, and holy men of old (for example, the patriarchs;) and they were all gathered together within the generation of Christ and his disciples. ::
So, the rest of y’all are SOL! Been nice knowing you.
Guess i’ll ask for seer-sucker shirts and bermuda shorts for my casket...
"For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me." (Isa 45:4 KJV)
“It could also be interpreted as Christ” but “though thou has not known me”? Yep, you got scripture figured out all right!!
PFL
>>>So, the rest of y’all are SOL! Been nice knowing you.<<<
Where does it say the rest are out of luck?
>>>Jesus said they are “those who do the will of my Father.”<<<
In what context?
Those who he predestined...for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will (Ephesians 1:5)
I suspected you would respond to that one, Cynical Bear.
Isn't he who defeated Babylon and let Israel return?
I agree, in part. This is the entire context:
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." (Eph 1:4-12 KJV)
Paul may be referring to all of the elect; or only to those whom Christ chose to serve him during and immediately after his ministry: those who first trusted in him.
In any case, who do you know who is holy and without blame? I don't know anyone that fits both of those categories.
Philip
>>>>”For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.” (Isa 45:4 KJV)
“It could also be interpreted as Christ” but “though thou has not known me”? Yep, you got scripture figured out all right!!<<<
Cynical Bear, what was my context for that verse?
Philip
Well, for starters I am. And if you are a Christian you are as well.
I know I will be judged as such because the righteousness of Jesus has been imputed to me and He has taken all of my filth on Himself.
....Paul may be referring to all of the elect; or only to those whom Christ chose to serve him during and immediately after his ministry: those who first trusted in him.
Let me make sure that I understand your conclusion, which appears to contradict your post to Gamecock: no one can be said to be "The Elect" following the sacking of Jerusalem?
pass the popcorn
How do you interpret this parable, and the following verse from the Revelation, in the context of your statement?
"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." (Luke 18:10-14 KJV)
"Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest." (Rev 15:4 KJV)
Philip
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
Now of course we in flesh were not yet born in the flesh (John 3 Christ's instruction to Nicodemus), back at the casting down -overthrow but all souls were living. Those that loved the Creator and stood against the first rebel are the election.
And it certainly does appear those of Israel stood with the Creator, as it is Written in Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Ecclesiastes 1:9-11 no memory is given to what hath been already of old time, but, Jeremiah 1:4- tells us that God knew Jeremiah before he was placed in his mother's womb. And Romans 9:11 before Esau and Jacob were born having done any good or evil, God hated Esau and loved Jacob.
So it reads that each soul/spirit intellect comes with a prior history.
Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.” Quoting I Kings 19:10-18.
The very elect are the only ones who can commit the unpardonable sin, by refusing to allow the Holy Spirit to speak as was demonstrated in Acts on Pentecost Day.
In all of my travels, I don't believe I've ever encountered a pelagian postmillennialist before.
That is what I believe. He sent preachers for the rest of us, beginning with some of the elect as preachers, such as Paul:
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" (Rom 10:13-15 KJV)
"For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!" (1 Cor 9:16 KJV)
However, I would appreciate it if you can post any scripture to the contrary? That is the entire purpose of this thread.
Thanks,
Philip
Right - no man is holy and without blame based on Romans. The elect while living on this earth are still sinners. We should put our trust and faith in Jesus Christ and not try to judge who the elect are.
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