Posted on 02/07/2014 4:44:09 AM PST by GonzoII
“Born again to me means that moment that you, as a functioning adult, accept God as the all mighty rather than carrying on with the rote you ware handed growing up or otherwise a lack of training. It is the concept of understanding.”
And where does it say you have to be a “functioning adult” with “understanding?” I missed that bit in the bible. [Mainly because IT’S NOT THERE!] Consider that with “your way” - retarded people are just out of luck. Consider that Jesus said of little children “suffer the little children come unto me.” And consider in NT times “whole households” [which CERTAINLY would have included infants and the very young, were baptized. Baptism is the NEW way one is united in a covenant relationship to God, it is available to all mankind and not just the Jewish people.
you obviously don’t have a CLUE regards the sacrament of Baptism and what the church teaches. Please. No false preaching from the peanut gallery about what Catholics believe. You are not an accurate reporter.
We are saved by God’s GRACE, through faith and good works. Or did you rip James out of your bible? We are also meant to be baptized, normally through water and saying “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” There is also “baptism of desire” where one can’t be baptized, perhaps for a practical reason like the thief on the cross, and St. Genesius, an actor who was acting in an anti-Christian lay and midway in the performance, which mocked Christian beliefs, he DID embrace Christian beliefs, said so and was martyred on the spot. He is still patron saint of actors.
OK, then. Since you insist on iconoclastic presentation that confuses the reader with lines that look just like the lines FR uses to separate one post from another, and comment typosgraphy that looks just like reply typography, hope you’ll be happy with low readership.
No, that is your lack of HTML skills, which other freepers take the time to learn and can easily be addressed as noted above. Lack of paragraphs is due to not putting the html paragraph indicator in place, for one thing.
“you obviously don’t have a CLUE regards the sacrament of Baptism and what the church teaches.”
Considering how many Papists I’ve debated on FR who have alternatively defended salvation for Muslims and atheists and denied that the church teaches it, I suspect it is the Papists who do not actually know what their church teaches. All they know is that their “church” is right.
“We are saved by God’s GRACE, through faith and good works. Or did you rip James out of your bible?”
IOW, you teach that grace is merited for salvation, just like the catechism:
2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.
Note: We can “then” merit the graces needed for “sanctification.... and for the attainment of eternal life,” amongst temporal blessings.
Compare with the scripture:
Rom_4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom_9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Grace, by definition, is gratuitous, and therefore cannot be earned by any merit of an individual, but by the absolute gift of God. As Saint Augustine explains:
“For who makes thee to differ, and what has thou that thou hast not received?” (1 Cor. iv. 7). Our merits therefore do not cause us to differ, but grace. For if it be merit, it is a debt; and if it be a debt, it is not gratuitous; and if it be not gratuitous, it is not grace.” (Augustine, Sermon 293)
“Catholicism teaches you to get to third base, rarely teaching what you need to get to heaven. Many Romans come to fully trust Christ apart from works anyway. My father, for instance.
I’ve observed that Roman Catholics make great, joyful Christians when the light dawns about how to be sure of salvation.”
And you and your dad are poorer for rejecting the Eucharist, the gift of Christ Himself which you reject, as did Judas. I suggest you read John 6. “Unless you EAT MY FLESH and DRINK MY BLOOD you have no life within you.” Does your church do that? It’s not a symbol. It’s His flesh and blood. Judas split after that. The only way you can be sure you have been saved is when you get to heaven. “not all who say ‘Lord, Lord’ will be saved.” In other words, people can fall away.
“No, that is your lack of HTML skills, which other freepers take the time to learn and can easily be addressed as noted above.”
Thanks for your advice, though I will completely ignore it for now.
Catholics can have “born again” moments.
You are still a Catholic, however. The marks of Baptism and Confirmation are indelible.
Sit down with a priest and get your questions answered.
**And you and your dad are poorer for rejecting the Eucharist, the gift of Christ Himself which you reject, as did Judas. I suggest you read John 6. “Unless you EAT MY FLESH and DRINK MY BLOOD you have no life within you.” **
BTTT!
Amen.
Like Alex Murphy once said:
In my experience, [Roman Catholics] make just one thing crucial to salvation - kissing the Pope's ring. Ultimately, everything else is negotiable for them. IMO nothing else explains why Trinitarian pro-life Protestants are anathemized, while atheistic pro-abort Democrats receive Pope-presided communion wafers and Cardinal-presided funeral masses.
“I have never seen any scripture indicating that babies were baptized.” — I’ve never seen any scripture indicated that only adults were. As a matter of fact, scripture is more supportive of the Catholic faith’s teaching of infant baptism. See Acts 16:15, 16:33; 1 Cor 1:16. for references to whole households being baptized.
“And you and your dad are poorer for rejecting the Eucharist, the gift of Christ Himself which you reject, as did Judas. I suggest you read John 6. “Unless you EAT MY FLESH and DRINK MY BLOOD you have no life within you.” Does your church do that? It’s not a symbol. It’s His flesh and blood. Judas split after that. The only way you can be sure you have been saved is when you get to heaven. “not all who say ‘Lord, Lord’ will be saved.” In other words, people can fall away.”
1. My father did not reject the eucharist - he trusted Christ alone for salvation.
2. I am not any poorer for obeying Christ’s words and regularly participating in communion as He commanded.
3. Communion is done “in memory of Him”. It is not Him, or memory would be unnecessary.
4. You are simply unschooled in Scripture if you think communion saves you.
5. No one who has come to Christ in saving faith, who is baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ, who is part of the Bride of Christ falls away. The passage you quote merely teaches that words do no save. Of course they do not.
My observation stands. Catholics who come to saving faith make some of the most amazing Christians.
*facepalm *
The epitome of cherry pinking verses. Taking six words out of context from the middle of a sentence.
Here's the rest of it.......
1 Peter 3:18-22 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
Well, the author seems to have gotten it correct, but too bad he's rationalizing it away.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.