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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

you obviously don’t have a CLUE regards the sacrament of Baptism and what the church teaches. Please. No false preaching from the peanut gallery about what Catholics believe. You are not an accurate reporter.

We are saved by God’s GRACE, through faith and good works. Or did you rip James out of your bible? We are also meant to be baptized, normally through water and saying “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” There is also “baptism of desire” where one can’t be baptized, perhaps for a practical reason like the thief on the cross, and St. Genesius, an actor who was acting in an anti-Christian lay and midway in the performance, which mocked Christian beliefs, he DID embrace Christian beliefs, said so and was martyred on the spot. He is still patron saint of actors.


43 posted on 02/07/2014 8:35:50 AM PST by gemoftheocean (...geez, this all seems so straight forward and logical to me...)
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To: gemoftheocean

“you obviously don’t have a CLUE regards the sacrament of Baptism and what the church teaches.”


Considering how many Papists I’ve debated on FR who have alternatively defended salvation for Muslims and atheists and denied that the church teaches it, I suspect it is the Papists who do not actually know what their church teaches. All they know is that their “church” is right.

“We are saved by God’s GRACE, through faith and good works. Or did you rip James out of your bible?”


IOW, you teach that grace is merited for salvation, just like the catechism:

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

Note: We can “then” merit the graces needed for “sanctification.... and for the attainment of eternal life,” amongst temporal blessings.

Compare with the scripture:

Rom_4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Rom_9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Grace, by definition, is gratuitous, and therefore cannot be earned by any merit of an individual, but by the absolute gift of God. As Saint Augustine explains:

“For who makes thee to differ, and what has thou that thou hast not received?” (1 Cor. iv. 7). Our merits therefore do not cause us to differ, but grace. For if it be merit, it is a debt; and if it be a debt, it is not gratuitous; and if it be not gratuitous, it is not grace.” (Augustine, Sermon 293)


46 posted on 02/07/2014 8:47:59 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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