Posted on 02/01/2014 1:39:19 PM PST by NYer
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SOLEMN PONTIFICAL MASS IN THE EXTRAORDINARY FORM FOR THE FEAST OF THE PRESENTATION OF THE LORD AT THE NATIONAL SHRINE OF THE INFANT OF PRAGUE
02/02 at 11:00 AM ET; 02/03 at 12:00 AM ET
Bishop Edward J. Slattery of Tulsa celebrates Holy Mass in the Extraordinary Form at the National Shrine of the Infant of Prague in Prague, Oklahoma. LIVE.
You’ve made public statements about problems with the liturgy. What changes would you like to see?
I would like to see the liturgy become what Vatican II intended it to be. That’s not something that can happen overnight. The bishops who were the fathers of the council from the United States came home and made changes too quickly. They shouldn’t have viewed the old liturgy, what we call the Tridentine Mass or Missal of Pope John XXIII, as something that needed to be fixed. Nothing was broken. There was an attitude that we had to implement Vatican II in a way that radically affects the liturgy.
What we lost in a short period of time was continuity. The new liturgy should be clearly identifiable as the liturgy of the pre-Vatican II Church. Changes, like turning the altar around, were too sudden and too radical. There is nothing in the Vatican II documents that justifies such changes. We’ve always had Mass facing the people as well as Mass ad orientem [“to the east,” with priest and people facing the same direction]. However, Mass ad orientem was the norm. These changes did not come from Vatican II.
Also, it was not a wise decision to do away with Latin in the Mass. How that happened, I don’t know; but the fathers of the Council never intended us to drop Latin. They wanted us to hold on to it and, at the same time, to make room for the vernacular, primarily so that the people could understand the Scriptures.
You yourself have begun celebrating Mass ad orientem.
Yes, in our cathedral and a few parishes where the priests ask me to. Most of the time, I say Mass facing the people when I travel around the diocese or when I have a large number of priests concelebrating, because it works better that way.
A few priests have followed my example and celebrate ad orientem as well. I have not requested they change. I prefer to lead by example and let the priests think about it, pray about it, study it, and then look at their churches and see if it’s feasible to do.
And it’s positive when people are thinking about and talking about the liturgy.
When people make the liturgy part of their conversation, it is a good thing. As priests and laypeople discuss the liturgy, they’ll see how important it is and how it is a work of God and not our own.
But we must approach the liturgy on bended knee with tremendous humility, recognizing that it doesn’t belong to us. It belongs to God. It is a gift. We worship God not by creating our own liturgies, but by receiving the liturgy as it comes to us from the Church. The liturgy should be formed and shaped by the Church itself to help people pray better. And we all pray better when we are disposed to receive what God has offered, rather than creating something of our own.
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National Shrine of the Infant of Prague
Bravo!
This is why there is a traditional Latin rite for those who want that type of rite for mass worship.
Let’s just agree to disagree, okay?
What’s an American Catholic as compared to a Roman Catholic?
The fact that you source American Catholic speaks volumes.
American Catholic pushes works and writings by Fr. Richard Rohr. Here’s a clip about Fr. Rohr:
“Fr. Rohr is deeply involved in the New Age. On the website for his Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC), a “training and formation center” based in Albuquerque, New Mexico that he founded in 1987, he says the purpose of his work is to provide “a faith alternative to the dominant consciousness” (whatever that means).
The CAC was a well-known hub for the Church’s premier dissent group in the U.S., better known as Call to Action (endorses women’s ordination, homosexuality, goddess worship, etc.).
Fr. Rohr has also been a long-time teacher of the Enneagram, an enormously popular New Age gimmick used for discerning one’s personality type. A specific warning against the use of the Enneagram for spiritual direction is included in the pontifical document, Jesus Christ, the Bearer of the Water of Life.
Another area where he is heavily involved is in the Emerging Church Movement, which consists of a diverse group of people who identify with Christianity but think its beliefs and teachings need to be “updated” to better conform to modern society (read compromise the faith).
Fr. Rohr participates in Emerging Church conferences and workshops alongside the leaders of this movement, such as Brian McClaren, a “theologian” who thinks the current version of Christianity only partialy reflects the truth. Another player, Phyllis Tickle, recently told an audience that “By eating the body and blood of our God, we are feeding the god within us . . .”
http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2013/10/12/can-trust-fr-richard-rohr
I leave with this posting about St. Justin and the early mass. As was posted, let’s just agree to disagree and go at that. You like TLM, that is fine, I like the simpler NO mass, that is fine also. Please respect my and I will respect your choice. God Bless.
I am a Roman Catholic who likes the simpler NO mass.
Dr. Marcellino D’Ambrosio “focused on one of the theological lights of Second Vatican Council, Henri Cardinal de Lubac, and his recovery of biblical interpretation”.
http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_author/1/Dr._Marcellino_D_Ambrosio.html
Once again, I question your choice of sources; but I may now understand why you prefer Bugnini’s mass over the Mass of All Time, the Closest Thing to Heaven.
“Mass of All Time, the Closest Thing to Heaven”.
Rather one of the types of masses in the 2,000 years of the history of the Catholic mass and now one of the wonderful rites of the Catholic Church.
This is my PS, a book I am most interested and might even interest you or suprise you:
Regarding Henri Cardinal de Lubac:
“In his (Lubac’s) first work, published in 1938, “Catholicism, the Social Aspects of Dogma,” he argued for diversity within the church.”
“He never shied away from questions posed by changing times, saying, “The church is a perpetual construction site.” He was an ardent defender of Teilhard de Chardin, whose evolutionist theses were condemned by Rome.”
“Father de Lubac’s writings drew sharp criticism from the Vatican, as Pope Pius XII hardened his stance on biblical and ecumenical research. After the publication of “Supernatural” in 1946, he was forbidden to teach for eight years. “Now I will have time to work,” he reportedly said.”
“Rehabilitated in 1958, he became a member of the Academy of Moral and Political Sciences. Pope John XXIII asked him to help prepare Vatican Council II, then take part in the council itself, from 1962-65.”
Considering your other sources, I don’t think I’d be interested. But thanks for the offer.
I congratulate you on your choice of the adjective, “simpler”. It’s quite appropriate!
1sim·ple adjective
: not hard to understand or do
: having few parts : not complex or fancy
: not special or unusual
And let us not forget that Pope St. Pius X declared in his encyclical “Pascendi Dominici Gregis,” 1907, that Modernism, the guiding force at Vatican II, is a HERESY. It is not just some philosophy that is different or unusual, it is a HERESY. Not only that, Pope St. Pius X declared that Modernism is the “synthesis of all heresies.”
That said, I am at the place no one wants to be when looking logically at a problem. If Modernism is a HERESY, and the current Pope seems to promote Modernism by what he says and does, then what? It is impossible to believe simultaneously two things that are diametrically opposed.
So, rather than “think” about the problem, I guess the only thing to do is pray about it. Otherwise, my head will explode.
Well, Christ’s Church was getting stale, doncha know?
At least you recognize the problem. Way too many people prefer to keep their heads in the sand. And point fingers at those who prefer not to.
I believe you intended to say the Latin Church. There are 22 churches that make up the Catholic Church. VCII proved to be a gift to the 21 Eastern Catholic Churches which were encouraged to restore their authentic liturgies. Meanwhile, the Latin Church progressed into the Novus Ordo liturgy that has caused so much consternation among the Roman Catholics here and around the world.
That is why at least there is both the NO and TLM rites in the Roman Catholic Church which gives Roman Catholics a choice.
No. According to Pope emeritus Benedict there are no two Roman rites; there are two forms of the same Roman rite, one quite ordinary (or as you say, “simple”) and the other extraordinary.
Choice? Ask the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate if they have a choice.
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