Imitating the Holy Family: Four Traits that Make It Possible

Wau.org ^ | December 2002 | not given

[Salvation]

You must not have read any of those links, because Luther, Calvin and Zwingli disagree with you. LOL!

But then you are probably one of those people who does YOPIOS — Your Own Personal Interpretation Of Scripture.

[lightman]

Remember how people who touched the Ark of the Old Covenant died? It’s my belief that if anyone had touched Mary sexually they would have likewise died.

There is something along those lines toward the end of the Protoevangelion of St. James...possibly the reason why this otherwise illuminating writing didn't make the cut for the New Testament canon.

[will of the people]

since i alone will stand before God and answer for my beliefs and actions, i must, with the help of the Holy Spirit, learned teachers, discernment and prayer be responsible for how i interpret and live scripture

i don’t do it in a vacuum, all alone, but neither do i do it in intellectual submission where i allow my questions and beliefs to be usurped by traditions of men

i do not follow calvin
i do not follow luther
i do not follow rome

i follow christ, and i learn and absorb from others who follow christ- but who don’t claim doctrinal infallibility

i rely on grace
i rely on mercy
and i rest in the finished work of christ

christ has died
christ is risen
christ will come again

the more willing a person or a sect or a church is to minimize doctrine to the finished work of Jesus, the more open i am to discussing with them the deep truths and mysteries of scripture

i believe God is bigger than any theology and any doctrine

if we can agree on the substitutionary death and resurrection of Jesus- we can argue about the rest

but where scripture is clear, scripture is clear

regardless of what doctrine calvin or luther or wesley or anyone espoused here in their life, they have the advantage now of knowing where they were mistaken

and we who follow christ, catholic or protestant, shall one day share in that revelation as well

in the mean time, we argue and we strive to find the truth

i must say, i find many catholic arguments (not necessarily arguments of catholic individuals, but catholic arguments) to be circular and unsatisfactory

but i find many protestant arguments to be so as well

sometimes i antagonize a little in these groups for fun- but under it all is a sincere desire to find truth

i cannot begin to express to you how little theological difference it makes to me whether mary was ever-virgin or not

but it does make a difference to me if someone can demonstrate it to me in scripture

it does make a difference to me when veneration sometimes, by some people looks more like worship than veneration

and those sorts of abuses (because even catholics would say worshiping mary is doctrinely incorrect) along with tradition as the primary support leave me little reason to question what i read in matthew (see above)

grace and peace to you, salvation

will

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Mary was a perpetual virgin. Haven’t you ever heard that?”

Prove it. That is simply a pagan myth added centuries later.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“But then you are probably one of those people who does YOPIOS — Your Own Personal Interpretation Of Scripture.”

Christians are commanded to study Scripture. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

+1

[Syncro]

(Joseph)...did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son.

(Joseph)...did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son

(Joseph)...did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, 25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son

(Joseph)... he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took his wife, 25 but knew her not until she had borne a son

As I was finding various different translations of Matt 1:24-25 I was wondering how the Catholic Bible did their translation.

From the Matthew 1:24-25 (Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition):

24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took his wife, 25 but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus.

Of course it is clear how important it was for Joseph to wait until the birth of Jesus until he consummated his marriage with the wife that God chose for him.

Now I don't recall any scripture that says that Joseph died shortly after Jesus was born, but scripture plainly shows that he did have sexual relations with his wife (and he did not die from it!), and she is NOT a "perpetual" virgin as some try to get us all to believe.

After the birth, Mary and Joseph were free from the restrictions upon them concerning the marriage bed.

It is a scriptural fact Joseph was TOLD to marry Mary, and we must recall what marriage entails and remember what God has told us in the scripture about marriage. In 1 Corinthians 7 we see this:

...each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband.

snip

Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again

And in Hebrews 13:4

Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled

And in Ephesians 5:22-24:

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

I doubt that God would have had Joseph marry Mary if he didn't want them to obey his scriptures concerning marriage.

As far as Mary being the ark of the new covenant, if some want to see her in that light, fine for them.

Genesis 2:24:Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Mary was a Godly woman who would not disobey scripture to satisfy those that would come along later with their "traditions."

Mary and Joseph became one flesh.

will of the people, thank you for your post, I thought I would expand on it a bit with more scripture.

"As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord"--Somewhere in the Old Testament.

[Insigne123]

Our priest just said at Sunday mass that they did not have sex - before Christ’s birth. Implication is that followed because it’s what’s supposed to in marriages.

[Syncro]

It’s refreshing that your priest understands the scriptures through the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.

We have a loving God.