| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
|
Locked on 12/26/2013 5:28:25 AM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish behavior |
Posted on 12/22/2013 7:28:20 AM PST by DouglasKC
“The Christian faith has not been tried and found wanting. It has rather been found difficult and left untried.” —Chesterton
I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending.The story of Jesus is either the greatest event in history or the cruelest hoax. If it is a hoax, then the whole of the Christian message crumbles together with the hopes of those multitudes of lives built on his name. The apostle Paul said:
“And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up; if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.” -1 Corinthians 15:14-19 (NKJV)
But if the story is true, then this world has been hit with extraordinary news of earth-shaking consequences. Have you taken the trouble to decide which it is?
In a matter this weighty, it is in your interest to explore the truth or falsity of Christ's claims. Amazingly however, many people who don't believe have never bothered to explore the evidence in support of Jesus,[1] but to the contrary, often run away from it. At the same time, many Christians themselves are not sure, at bottom, whether the claims of their faith are solid. Is the Christian claim a hoax? Is it just wishful thinking? Or is it actually true?
(Excerpt) Read more at christiananswers.net ...
Quite a long post to admit you adhere to Kenosis. You should look at the history you refer to more clearly. It was the Arians who had the emperor’s ear and armies at their disposal.
Try pinging multiple screen names instead of spamming an entire thread.
It is in poor (boorish) form to label someone in a topic if they do not self identify. The reason being (because I am not sure the reasoning is within your grasp) that people leave an organization, do not fully embrace all of the tenets or other reasons. Leave it to DouglasKC to explain his own position and affiliations and you will make this a friendlier and happier place in which to converse. It is also the Christian thing to do if that has any weight with you at all. Take care and Merry Christmas.
The above has to be the best example since Polycarp bridges the apostles and church fathers.
“The above has to be the best example since Polycarp bridges the apostles and church fathers.”
So does Ignatius, as he was a contemporary of Polycarp, though he died earlier. (Romans fed him to lions.) He was likely ordained by the Apostle John as well, and that is what he is credited with, though he does not mention it in his writings, if memory serves.
You don’t know your history. At various times there was an Arian Emperor and a non-Arian. It is all detailed in the Book “When Jesus Became God”. If memory serves me right,Constantine waffled on the issue.
The scriptural evidence and testimony of the early church fathers (to include Polycarp who was a disciple of John) proves otherwise. Just saying what you say a bunch of times does not make it valid.
Polycarp can’t be wrong?
The scriptural evidence does NOT support the idea that Jesus is God.
John 1:1 is the most famous but it is translated various ways and as I have posted The Book of John itself says its purpose is that you might believe Jesus is the Son of God.
Anyway, I have learned there is no point in arguing with most Trinitarians. They do not want to see.
You kind of did not show the context of the passage. Here it is:
John 5:
12 Then they asked him, “Who is the Man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk’?” 13 But the one who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, a multitude being in that place. 14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.”
15 The man departed and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well.
Honor the Father and the Son
16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Life and Judgment Are Through the Son
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
Can someone other than God forgive sins?
You are correct on the Nicene Creed. It was decided to settle a lot of heresies.
But what about The Apostles’ Creed?
Same thoughts, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Thanks for posting The Apostles’ Creed.
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
Ignatius died sometime between 95-115AD, already a leader in the church. That puts the alleged “heresy” into the first century. Mind you, the scripture is enough to settle the matter all on its own, but it’s the icing on the cake to disprove the claim that these things were only invented hundreds of years later.
You can speak for yourself, but others sometimes check the links. You aren’t trying to read their minds, are you?
Only God the Father knows when the last day will be.
Read Polycarp’s epistle. The best epistle we have confirming the NT canon.
“Polycarp can’t be wrong?”
Irrelevant, since your argument is that these doctrines did not exist until Nicea, or, as you said in another post, in 225AD. In which case, it is sufficient to show that they existed from the 1st century, and therefore your claims are false when you say that the first century Christians did not believe such things.
If you wish to argue “Polycarp is wrong,” then this is a debate of the scriptures to see whether or not he was wrong, which you lose anyway.
Again just saying others are wrong without presenting your rebuttal does not make what you say correct. Hiding behind obscure lexicons and manuscripts is what 'good' cults do.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.