Posted on 12/20/2013 1:03:07 AM PST by Stingray
Several months ago someone sent me a copy of a book: 2008 God’s Final Witness, by Ronald Weinland. It was suggested to me that perhaps I should challenge Mr. Weinland to debate me. As I scanned the book, I decided that the best response overall was to allow time to respond to Mr. Weinland, and my thinking has been vindicated.
You see, Mr. Weinland claims that, “When this book is published at the end of summer of 2006, there will be a maximum of two years remaining before the world will be plunged into the worst time in human history” (p. 244). Mr. Weinland is (was) so absolutely positive of his predictions that he actually claimed to be one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11, “I am God’s end-time witness and spokesman” (p. 111). So, here we are in 2012, nothing, absolutely nothing that Mr. Weinland-- God's final witness!!-- predicted has come true.
(Excerpt) Read more at eschatology.org ...
First the request: please provide a "full preterism caucus" for the discussion of topics relating to fulfilled Bible prophecy. (The author of the article, linked above, is a "full preterist.")
Now, the discussion. Mr. Preston closes his article, linked above, with the following:
"It is time, past time, for Bible students to accept the inspired truth that the events of the end were near in the first century, and they were fulfilled in the first century, just as predicted. All futurist eschatologies are false. Men such as Mr. Weinland are an embarrassment to the cause of the truth of Christ, and give the skeptics of the world ammunition for their attacks on the Lord."
I couldn't agree more. I know there are several people on this site as tired as I am of seeing false promises, false prophecies, and false teachers proclaiming the "soon return" of Christ. Yet many are afraid to speak up because of the "Alinsky-ite" tactics of Futurists, who debase discussion through inflammatory rhetoric and ridicule.
If you're as tired as I am of false teachers and false promises, let's discuss what Christ, His apostles, and history really have to say about these things.
Merry Christmas!
Obama was elected 2 years later
That was definitely end time stuff
lol
“Obama was elected 2 years later That was definitely end time stuff lol”
And while there was a time even I would’ve taken such a view quite seriously, unfortunately Obama cannot be THE Anti-christ. THAT Anti-Christ was supposedly MUCH smarter! ;)
I’ve never really started a “caucus thread” before, so I’m not even sure how such a thing works. I figured I would take the request public to see if the rel_mod would make it happen (if there is, indeed, an “it” there.)
Just to head off any questions in advance, full preterism believes that all eschatology or “end times” events were fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem, including the resurrection of the dead and Jesus’ Second Coming, or Parousia, and the Final Judgment.
I came from the futurist/dispensationalist paradigm, having believed in a yet future return of Christ most of my Christian life (30+ years and counting). A little more than 5 years ago, I began to look at the Biblical record anew, vowing to follow the evidence wherever it led. I didn’t take anyone’s word for it, neither preterist nor futurist, but examined the Biblical language and history itself, often spending 5 hours a night with multiple translations of the Bible open, including Greek, Hebrew, and literal “word-for-word” translations.
The results of those 5+ years of intensive study have led me to one inescapable conclusion: the eschatology of Christ and His apostles is completely and utterly at odds with the eschatology being taught in mainline churches and seminaries today.
Hopefully, as we move forward in this joint venture, we can have a serious discussion about what full preterism is, what it means, and its implications in a world hungry for truth. I’ve started this journey with the article, linked above, because false promises are what started me down this path, and it all began with a very simple question: why have so many people been so wrong about Christ’s “soon return” for so very many years?
If you’re wondering that, too: welcome.
Thanks F15Eagle! :)
Marking, for later reading. Hey, Stingray, long time, no see. Be well, and Merry Christmas!
Your link is precisely the kind of information that this caucus will seek to expose as fraudulent, because such interpretation leads to the kind of false prophets and teachers that have risen and fallen throughout the last 2,000 years.
Thanks, logos! It’s a pleasure to see some of the old timers still around! :)
I do not believe ALL the answers can be found in any human’s finite mind. As sensible as this site is, they totally avoid the subject of the Sixth Seal War. I’m still seeking and studying.
That being said, the Mathematical Precision of Biblical Prophecy and the identification of the Leopard Bear Lion Beast makes better sense of the Scriptures than anything I have ever read. If you haven’t already, please look at all of this.
I had my doubts about the whole Pre Trib rapture/Futurist interpretations for a long time, and now believe it to be totally false.
“I do not believe ALL the answers can be found in any human’s finite mind.”
I don’t either. Thank God we have His inspired word to guide us.
“That being said, the Mathematical Precision of Biblical Prophecy...”
Much if which is superimposed on the text by people juggling numbers.
“...and the identification of the Leopard Bear Lion Beast makes better sense of the Scriptures than anything I have ever read.”
First of all, the Lion, Bear, Leopard, “Terrible Beast” metaphors correspond to the four great world empires that would have significant influence over the Holy Land. The Lion was the Babylonian Empire, the Bear was Persia, the Leopard was Greece, and the “Terrible Beast” was Rome.
Babylon was responsible for the destruction of the first Temple and Jerusalem in 586 BC, when Judea’s people were carried into captivity.
Persia was represented in this particular vision by the Bear, raised up on its side with three ribs in its mouth. These three ribs represented three areas in what we now know as modern day Turkey; regions which Persia conquered in its drive west toward the Mediterranean and Greece. Of significance to the Jews: King Cyrus of Persia issued the decree that allowed the Jews back into their homeland to rebuild the Temple.
The Leopard is Greece that divides into 4 primary kingdoms after Alexander’s death. Two of these battle over Judea for some time: the Ptolemies of Egypt and the Seleucids of Syria. The Seleucid king Antiochus IV Epiphanes sacked Jerusalem and outlawed the practice of Mosaic Law. His reign is covered briefly in Daniel 8 and extensively in both Daniel 11 and 1Maccabees.
Finally, Rome is the great and terrible beast. During the Maccabean Revolt against the Syrian Greeks, Jerusalem sent envoys to Rome to ask the Roman Senate for aid against their enemies. Rome signed a pact with Jerusalem that lasted almost 100 years. When Jerusalem tried to back out of the deal, (and I’m condensing years of history here), Rome sent Pompey to conquer the city and occupy Jerusalem.
During this time of Roman occupation, Tiberius Caesar issues the decree that brings Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem to be counted and taxed. They had a son. You know the rest of the story.
The web of prophecy leading to the birth, death, and resurrection of Messiah in the OT has nothing to do with what people read in the news or see on TV today. Nothing. There is no more singular significant event in the history of the world than the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and it was this event about which the thread of OT prophecy revolves. It really is no more complicated than that.
First the request: please provide a "full preterism caucus" for the discussion of topics relating to fulfilled Bible prophecy. (The author of the article, linked above, is a "full preterist.")
Caucus means, chitchat amongst yourselves, do not discuss the views of those not part of your caucus, who are barred from responding. The Dispensational caucus seems to break that regularly. Will yours be better behaved?
Augustus Caesar issued the census decree, not Tiberius. That’s what I get for trying to type all this from memory. :(
“Caucus means, chitchat amongst yourselves, do not discuss the views of those not part of your caucus, who are barred from responding. The Dispensational caucus seems to break that regularly. Will yours be better behaved?”
I hope so. We’ll see.
Since this is something new, you'll probably have to explain it to quite a few posters, and maybe the Religion Moderators, but if it catches on, eventually people will know what it means and either participate or avoid it.
There is no way this can be a caucus thread. The article itself includes disparaging dispensationalists. In a caucus thread none of that can happen.
LOL
You did well!
As for the Gentleman behind the website I mentioned, he isn’t one of these blow dried modern folk, but continues in the historical perspective of the prophecies. Your interpretations (which I am just beginning to investigate) and his seem to agree on quite a few points.
His interpretations of the 1260 days and the 1335 days in Daniel, which were prophecies to and about Israel/Judea make a lot of sense. Again, the only real omission I see in Skolfield’s work is any mention of the Sixth Seal War........which I personally believe is in our future.
I’m no Bible scholar, being trained in engineering, with a low tolerance for emotionalism and a high respect for logic. I keep in mind that God does things in the most difficult and unlikely ways so His influence can be seen by those seeking Him. (Think of 90 year old Sarah bearing a child)
Let’s keep each other in our prayers.
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