"Jesus did not say, “My flesh is of no avail.”
He said, “The flesh is of no avail.” "
"Jesus did not say, “My flesh is of no avail.”
He said, “The flesh is of no avail.” "
Amen
Perfect example of biblical eisegesis ...
John is the only gospel that doesnt mention the Lords Table during the passover. If John 6 is meant to foreshadow the "real presence," then his omission in the upper room discourse is not answerable with a cogent explanation. It will always be "John didnt have to mention it because the other 3 did ..."
for later
On the surface of things, why would one want to argue against the bodily presence of Christ is His Supper? Of what benefit is it to participate in Christ only by way of Platonic notions? No wonder it has been the practice of the Church to catechize and commune only those who take Christ at His Word, and do not turn away when the sayings are hard.
John 6:
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
Jesus spoke and taught in parables and metaphors. He didn’t mean to actually EAT His flesh or drink His blood. He didn’t mean to eat a wafer, cracker, or drink grape juice or wine. Maybe you should ask the Holy Spirit to explain it to you. It’s about wholeheartedly, completely, believing in HIM. It’s totally accepting Him, making Him your one and only God. Taking in His teachings and commandments and living a righteous life that makes Him proud.
If you want to eat wafers and drink wine as a “symbol” of those things mentioned above, then I wouldn’t be a stumbling block to you.
Romans 14:
4 “Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.”
But, Jesus IS the “Truth”.
John 8:
“..... Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
To claim that the wafer actually IS Jesus’ body and the wine actually IS Jesus’ blood, seems to totally miss the point. Eating a wafer gives you what, Jesus vitamins? “You are what you eat”, is that it? No, it’s taking in His love and teachings. It’s living FOR Him. You have “free will”. He wants you to CHOOSE to do what is good, not to “choose” to eat a wafer.
Before you attack me, Don’t waste your time. I don’t read responses. I stand by what I said, let God be my judge.
The hubris to think that a created human by magic can
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
turn a Pesach Matzoh into the Creator of the universe.
Christ dwells in our hearts through faith.
We don’t need to eat Him.
The flesh profits nothing. The words Jesus spoke are SPIRIT and truth.
Augustine’s reading of John 6. “Why ready thou teeth and stomach? Believe, and you have eaten already.”
The body and blood of Christ consumed through faith without eating or drinking. Believe, saith Augustine, and thou hast eaten already.
Based on his reading of:
Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
“They said therefore unto Him, What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” For He had said to them, “Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth unto eternal life.” “What shall we do?” they ask; by observing what, shall we be able to fulfill this precept? “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He has sent.” This is then to eat the meat, not that which perisheth, but that which endureth unto eternal life. To what purpose dost thou make ready teeth and stomach? Believe, and thou hast eaten already. (Augustine, Tractate 25)
This is the most natural reading of the text, unless the Papists are going to offer us the sacrament of water that gives eternal life, as Christ commanded must be drank in John 4:
Joh 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Joh 4:15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.