Posted on 12/09/2013 2:43:18 PM PST by NYer
Not always, but most of the time...
Without a doubt, but I read for myself too. I do not trust others to tell me what it says. I research it myself.
Fully agreed that any virtuous thinking man would study the Scriptures—but if one spends some time studying the Scriptures, one begins to realize that one, like the Ethiopian Eunuch, needs help to delve deeper—St. Augustine’s Preface to his work On Christian Doctrine is both a wonderful reflection upon this and an adequate refutation of Sola Scriptura, followed by a very thoughtful four books meant to aid one in studying Scripture. If one thinks that one can exhaust Scripture one’s self, one is a fool—indeed one can’t exhaust Scripture, but good guides can always help one to delve deeper.
Very briefly, Augustine’s argument goes like this:
If smvoice really believes that people should do away with everything that man is written because it distracts from God, smvoice should stop posting, because he is a man, and thus his posts are something written by a man and, according to his logic, something distracting people from God. If those professing Sola Scriptura were truly intent on proving the truth of their position, none of them would say anything about religion and do nothing to promote religion beyond handing out Bibles with no comment. After 50 years, if this position were true, then the number of those holding it ought to explode, and if it is false, they would plummet.
As for me, I will continue to look to sound guides when plunging into the Word of God, like St. Ephrem, a fourth century Doctor of the Church, and point others towards them. The following is a passage that I have been reading for about a decade when concluding an introductory Scripture course at a Catholic school. I hope you do not find the attitude to offensive: it is a very Catholic passage, as not only is it by a man recognized as a Doctor of the Church, but it is one of only about 400 non-scriptural passages sanctioned for use in the Church’s liturgy.
St. Ephrem, from the Commentary on the Diatessaron
Lord, who can comprehend even one of your words? We lose more of it than we grasp, like those who drink from a living spring. For God’s word offers different facets according to the capacity of the listener, and the Lord has portrayed his message in many colors, so that whoever gazes upon it can see in it what suits him. Within it he has buried manifold treasures, so that each of us might grow rich in seeking them out.
The word of God is a tree of life that offers us blessed fruit from each of its branches. It is like that rock which was struck open in the wilderness, from which all were offered spiritual drink. As the Apostle says: They ate spiritual food and they drank spiritual drink.
And so whenever anyone discovers some part of the treasure, he should not think that he has exhausted God’s word. Instead he should feel that this is all that he was able to find of the wealth contained in it. Nor should he say that the word is weak and sterile or look down on it simply because this portion was all that he happened to find. But precisely because he could not capture it all he should give thanks for its riches.
Be glad then that you are overwhelmed, and do not be saddened because he has overcome you. A thirsty man is happy when he is drinking, and he is not depressed because he cannot exhaust the spring. So let this spring quench your thirst, and not your thirst the spring. For if you can satisfy your thirst without exhausting the spring, then when you thirst again you can drink from it once more; but if when your thirst is sated the spring is also dried up, then your victory would turn to harm.
Be thankful then for what you have received, and do not be saddened at all that such an abundance still remains. What you have received and attained is your present share, while what is left will be your heritage. For what you could not take at one time because of your weakness, you will be able to grasp at another if you only persevere. So do not foolishly try to drain in one draught what cannot be consumed all at once, and do not cease out of faintheartedness from what you will be able to absorb as time goes on.
Fully agreed that any virtuous thinking man would study the Scriptures—but if one spends some time studying the Scriptures, one begins to realize that one, like the Ethiopian Eunuch, needs help to delve deeper—St. Augustine’s Preface to his work On Christian Doctrine is both a wonderful reflection upon this and an adequate refutation of Sola Scriptura, followed by a very thoughtful four books meant to aid one in studying Scripture. If one thinks that one can exhaust Scripture one’s self, one is a fool—indeed one can’t exhaust Scripture, but good guides can always help one to delve deeper.
Very briefly, Augustine’s argument goes like this:
If smvoice really believes that people should do away with everything that man is written because it distracts from God, smvoice should stop posting, because he is a man, and thus his posts are something written by a man and, according to his logic, something distracting people from God. If those professing Sola Scriptura were truly intent on proving the truth of their position, none of them would say anything about religion and do nothing to promote religion beyond handing out Bibles with no comment. After 50 years, if this position were true, then the number of those holding it ought to explode, and if it is false, they would plummet.
As for me, I will continue to look to sound guides when plunging into the Word of God, like St. Ephrem, a fourth century Doctor of the Church, and point others towards them. The following is a passage that I have been reading for about a decade when concluding an introductory Scripture course at a Catholic school. I hope you do not find the attitude to offensive: it is a very Catholic passage, as not only is it by a man recognized as a Doctor of the Church, but it is one of only about 400 non-scriptural passages sanctioned for use in the Church’s liturgy.
St. Ephrem, from the Commentary on the Diatessaron
Lord, who can comprehend even one of your words? We lose more of it than we grasp, like those who drink from a living spring. For God’s word offers different facets according to the capacity of the listener, and the Lord has portrayed his message in many colors, so that whoever gazes upon it can see in it what suits him. Within it he has buried manifold treasures, so that each of us might grow rich in seeking them out.
The word of God is a tree of life that offers us blessed fruit from each of its branches. It is like that rock which was struck open in the wilderness, from which all were offered spiritual drink. As the Apostle says: They ate spiritual food and they drank spiritual drink.
And so whenever anyone discovers some part of the treasure, he should not think that he has exhausted God’s word. Instead he should feel that this is all that he was able to find of the wealth contained in it. Nor should he say that the word is weak and sterile or look down on it simply because this portion was all that he happened to find. But precisely because he could not capture it all he should give thanks for its riches.
Be glad then that you are overwhelmed, and do not be saddened because he has overcome you. A thirsty man is happy when he is drinking, and he is not depressed because he cannot exhaust the spring. So let this spring quench your thirst, and not your thirst the spring. For if you can satisfy your thirst without exhausting the spring, then when you thirst again you can drink from it once more; but if when your thirst is sated the spring is also dried up, then your victory would turn to harm.
Be thankful then for what you have received, and do not be saddened at all that such an abundance still remains. What you have received and attained is your present share, while what is left will be your heritage. For what you could not take at one time because of your weakness, you will be able to grasp at another if you only persevere. So do not foolishly try to drain in one draught what cannot be consumed all at once, and do not cease out of faintheartedness from what you will be able to absorb as time goes on.
Sorry for the double post.
What you have been reading? Go read Cardinal Henry Newman of his salific experience.
I’m in RCIA right now. I look at this as continuing and deepening the commitment I made praying with one of my teachers at my (Protestant) Christian high school. If I didn’t think of it that way, or didn’t have confidence that I could, I wouldn’t be here right now. Period. (And unlike some politicians I know of, that period doesn’t have an asterisk.)
Like I always say, no one wrote an article when I changed from cafholic to Lutheran. Still so glad I followed in Luther’s footsteps!
So from the age of 15 to 27 he was in Calvary Chapel. And then from either the age of 24 or 27 until he was 36 he was in the PCA. That sounds a lot more stable than many, many Protestants I have met before.
Are you a universalist?
Have you looked at my FR homepage?
What, you found one in a million??? I'm not going to search...You got something, post it...
With the church fathers ... you take the good with the bad ... Origen was a universalist, Clement used a mythical bird to demonstrate the resurrection ... most of them did not present anything resembling a cogent theology; most of them wrote to address occasions.
I value the fathers to get insight into how they thought about things ... not to form my doctrine. Doctrine comes from direct statements of scripture.
The Trinity? The doctrine that God created all things? The Incarnation of Christ, true man and true God? The Virgin Birth? The doctrine that Jesus suffered on the Cross and died "for us men and for our salvation"? The bodily resurrection of Jesus on the third day? The canonicity and inspiration of the New Testament? Salvation by grace, as taught by Paul, Augustine, and the 2nd Council of Orange?
All those things are anathema to you?
It was meant as a complement. To mix metaphors (my apologies), when I see a theological microscope on display, I always wonder if the ship of faith is really underway.
Maybe smvoice was speaking in hyperbole.
Is that possible, smvoice? That you didn’t intend to be understood so literally? That you were merely using a literary device (here, hyperbole) to make a point?
Different or less? I believe that Mary bore Jesus without having carnal knowledge of a man, through the power of the Holy Spirit. If you believe that, then no, we don't believe something "totally different," the fact that I believe in a few more things notwithstanding.
Nobody "makes" the Trinity, the Trinity is eternally self-existent and makes all things. But that's being flippant ...
So ... Three Divine persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, distinct in identity but united in one Divine substance, co-equal in majesty and glory, existing and relating to each other eternally without change. (See the Athanasian creed for details.)
What's to discuss? It was pretty much agreed-upon by all Christians 1700 years ago. You want to reinvent the wheel, too?
Strange and dangerous thing to be hyperbolic about. I think it’s basically sin to make the divisions between Christians bigger than they already are ... but to do so just to score rhetorical points ???
check out the Catholic Catechism..It won’t bite, promise. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
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