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Did Martin Luther believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary? (Tipping R.C. Straw men)
Beggars All ^ | September 30, 2010

Posted on 11/20/2013 7:14:42 AM PST by Gamecock

Did Martin Luther believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary? According to Patrick Madrid and Taylor Marshall, he did. Madrid says this question will "likely raise a few eyebrows, pique a few sensitivities, and elicit a few comments around Christian blogdom, from both sides of the Tiber." It appears Madrid thinks Taylor Marshall posted some new controversial tidbit of historical research finally making its way to the Internet. Actually, Marshall's alleged information has been surfing around for over ten years, cut, pasted, and rehashed- taken from one specific Romanist layman with a blog.

Contrary to Marshall's blog entry, it is not a clear cut case as to what Luther's view was. Romanists typically ignore anything about Mary that doesn't support Romanist Mariology. The same goes for Luther's Mariology: when Romanists find a Luther tidbit about Mary that seems to support Mariolatry, they run with it, even if other evidence contradicts the evidence they're using. So, here's a closer look at Taylor Marshall's facts about Luther and the immaculate conception.


1.The eminent Lutheran scholar Arthur Carl Piepkorn

The first tidbit used by Marshall is that "The eminent Lutheran scholar Arthur Carl Piepkorn (1907-73) has also confirmed that Luther believed in the Immaculate Conception even as a Protestant." No quote, research finding, or documentation from Piepkorn are presented by either Marshall or Madrid. That doesn't surprise me, because the only material from Piepkorn on this subject that I know of comes from The Church: Selected Writings of Arthur Carl Piepkorn, (New York: ALPB Books, 1993). This is typically the source Romanists use.

Piepkorn makes a comment in passing on page 275, leaving the discussion at Luther “seems” to have had a lifelong belief in the Immaculate Conception. He neither discusses the content of Luther’s opinion, nor does he offer any indication if the 1854 dogma is in question. Then on page 289 Piepkorn states:

Yet three years before his death [Luther] was still affirming in print the opinion that he had worked out in detail with considerable theological ingenuity twenty five years earlier [#12], namely that through the merits of her Son -to-be the Blessed Virgin was marvelously preserved from the taint of sin from the first moment of her existence as a human being [#13].

footnote #12. Sermon on the Gospel for the Feast of the Conception of the B.V.M. (1517), Weimar edition 17/2, 288.

footnote #13. Vom Schem Hamphoras und vom Geschlect Christi, 1543, Weimar edition, 53,640. compare for the year 1553, 37, 231, where he describes the B.V.M. as an sund (i.e. ohne Sünde, "without sin").


Footnote #12 is actually an error. The sermon Piepkorn's referenced was preached in 1527, and begins on page 280 in WA 17.2. This sermon will be discussed below in point #2, because later printed copies of the sermon (from Luther's lifetime) delete the sole passing comment to Mary's immaculate conception. The error makes Piepkorn's "twenty five year" comment inaccurate. That is, the sermon he based his comment on was actually preached ten years later.

Footnote #13 refers to one of Luther's later anti-Jewish writings, not a treatise on Mariology. Luther does not launch into any full discussion of Mary's Immaculate Conception. Luther does state, only in passing that it was necessary for Mary to be a young holy virgin freed of original sin and cleansed by the Holy Ghost to be the mother of Jesus Christ. This statement comes after argumentation for Mary's perpetual virginity. What the statement from Luther doesn't say, one way or the other, is if Mary lived a completely sinless life. I've documented a number of times in which Luther says the cleansing of Mary by the Holy Spirit happened at the conception of Christ, not at Mary's conception.

Piepkorn presents no argumentation or analysis. Why would Piepkorn takes vague statements and put forth strong conclusions? I can only speculate, but Piepkorn had interest in ecumenical dialog with Rome. He was involved for multiple years with Lutheran-Catholic dialogue. Catholic scholar Raymond Brown praised Piepkorn and commented that it would be preposterous to doubt the validity of his priestly orders. Piepkorn's romance with Rome seems to have molded his interpretation of Luther's Mariology.


2. On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God, 1527


The next tidbit offered by Marshall is the following Luther quote:

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" - Martin Luther's Sermon "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527.

The sermon this quote was taken from is not included in the English edition of Luther’s Works, and to my knowledge, the complete sermon has not been translated into English. This quote made its way into a cyber space when a Romanist about 10 years ago began posting it after he took it from Roman Catholic historian Hartmann Grisar's book, Luther Vol. IV (St Louis: B. Herder, 1913). Grisar uses this quote, but what my Romanist friends typically leave out is his analysis:

The sermon was taken down in notes and published with Luther’s approval. The same statements concerning the Immaculate Conception still remain in a printed edition published in 1529, but in later editions which appeared during Luther’s lifetime they disappear.

The reason for their disappearance is that as Luther’s Christocentric theology developed, aspects of Luther’s Mariology were abandoned. Grisar also recognizes the development in Luther's theology. In regards to the Luther quote in question, Grisar says (from a Roman Catholic perspective):

As Luther’s intellectual and ethical development progressed we cannot naturally expect the sublime picture of the pure Mother of God, the type of virginity, of the spirit of sacrifice and of sanctity to furnish any great attraction for him, and as a matter of fact such statements as the above are no longer met with in his later works.

The most one can conclude from this Luther quote is that Luther held to some form of Mary's sinlessness in 1527. According to Grisar, the comment was stricken from the sermon, and Luther abandoned his earlier view.

3. Martin Luther's Little Prayer Book, 1522

Marshall then uses another Luther quote to prove his case:

She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin—something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. - Martin Luther's Little Prayer Book, 1522

"Martin Luther's Little Prayer Book" refers to the Personal Prayer Book of 1522. Here Luther does treat the subject of Mary. He states, "In the first place, she is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin—something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil" (LW 43:39).

This quote indeed appears to treat Mary as entirely sinless. This statement was made in 1522. If Grisar is correct, Luther's later view does not reflect such sentiment. Even in this early Reformation writing, Luther began changing the emphasis on Mary, and de-emphasizing the importance of her attributes:

“Take note of this: no one should put his trust or confidence in the Mother of God or in her merits, for such trust is worthy of God alone and is the lofty service due only to him. Rather praise and thank God through Mary and the grace given her. Laud and love her simply as the one who, without merit, obtained such blessings from God, sheerly out of his mercy, as she herself testifies in the Magnificat.”

“Therefore we should make the Hail Mary neither a prayer nor an invocation because it is improper to interpret the words beyond what they mean in themselves and beyond the meaning given them by the Holy Spirit.”

“…her giving birth is blessed in that it was spared the curse upon all children of Eve who are conceived in sin and born to deserve death and damnation. Only the fruit of her body is blessed, and through this birth we are all blessed.”

“…in the present no one speaks evil of this Mother and her Fruit as much as those who bless her with many rosaries and constantly mouth the Hail Mary. These, more than any others, speak evil against Christ’s word and faith in the worst way.

“Therefore, notice that this Mother and her Fruit are blessed in a twofold way—bodily and spiritually. Bodily with lips and the words of the Hail Mary; such persons blaspheme and speak evil of her most dangerously. And spiritually [one blesses her] in one’s heart by praise and benediction for her child, Christ—for all his words, deeds, and sufferings. And no one does this except he who has the true Christian faith because without such faith no heart is good but is by nature stuffed full of evil speech and blasphemy against God and all his saints.”


It makes a lot of sense that by 1530 or so, Luther's views on Mary would shift even more away from Romanism.


Luther's view?
Luther's later view appears to be that at Christ's conception the Holy Spirit sanctified Mary so that the child would be born with non-sinful flesh and blood. For an example of Luther's argumentation, see: Luther and the Immaculate Conception? The 1540 Disputation On the Divinity and Humanity of Christ.

There are many other statements about Mary from Luther Romanists ignore. Most of these are post-1527.

In this sermon Luther states, " although she had been sanctified by the Holy Spirit; yet he permitted her at times to err, even in the important matters of faith." He says also:

Be they called holy, learned, fathers, councils, or any other name, even though they were Mary, Joseph and all the saints it does not follow that they could not have erred and made mistakes. For here you learn that the mother of Christ though she possessed great intelligence and enlightenment, showed great ignorance in that she did not know where to find Christ, and in consequence was censured by him because she did not know what she should have known. If she failed and through her ignorance was brought to such anxiety and sorrow that she thought she had lost Christ, is it a wonder that other saints should often have erred and stumbled, when they followed their own notions, without the guidance of Scripture, or put their own notions into Scripture.

See also selections from this blog entry, documenting the same position from Luther.

Rather than discussing Mary’s sinlessness, Luther's later writings insist Christ’s sinlessness was due entirely to the miraculous work of the Holy Spirit during conception. In 1532 he preached:

Mother Mary, like us, was born in sin of sinful parents, but the Holy Spirit covered her, sanctified and purified her so that this child was born of flesh and blood, but not with sinful flesh and blood. The Holy Spirit permitted the Virgin Mary to remain a true, natural human being of flesh and blood, just as we. However, he warded off sin from her flesh and blood so that she became the mother of a pure child, not poisoned by sin as we are…For in that moment when she conceived, she was a holy mother filled with the Holy Spirit and her fruit is a holy pure fruit, at once God and truly man, in one person [Martin Luther, Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, ed. John Nicholas Lenker. ( Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1996), 291].

In 1534 Luther explained that Christ was “born of a young maiden, as you and I are born of our mothers. The only difference is that the Holy Spirit engineered this conception and birth, while in contrast we mortals are conceived and born in sin.”[Ibid., 294.]. As Jaroslov Pelikan has noted, Mary functioned in Luther’s theology as “the guarantee of the reality of the incarnation and of the human nature of Christ.” With the doctrine of the immaculate conception, one sees a clear change in Luther’s thought. The theologian, who had at one time praised both mother and child for their purity, now praised only the Son.

Conclusion
This is only a brief look at a subject I've spent considerable time on over the years. I would never be dogmatic (for lack of a better word), but I've never found any conclusive quotes from Luther (with a context!) after 1527 that reflect his earlier position.

There's one Romanist who thinks simply doing a scholarly head count (which scholars think Luther believed in the immaculate conception, and which do not) is the means of determining Luther's view. This isn't my way of determining truth. I like to look at quotes and look up contexts, especially on an issue that has some uncertainty about it. Simply consider the errors I located in Piepkorn's view detailed here, and also in this previous entry. Those who think simply counting heads determines truth are typically those who really don't care about the truth.

I'm sure Patrick Madrid could care less. I don't know anything about Taylor Marshall- perhaps he's a guy interested in history and truth and will revise his blog entry. Marshall concludes his article stating,

Far be it from me to approve of Luther. I only list these quotes to show how far Protestantism has come from it's quasi-Catholic origin. If only Lutherans would return to this single doctrine of their founder; how quickly our Lady would turn them into true Catholics! Queen conceived without original sin, pray for us!

Even if Martin Luther believed in Mary's immaculate conception, the Reformation does not suffer loss. Neither myself nor the Lutheran church considers Luther to be an infallible source of either interpretation or revelation. However, my Romanist friends need to do a little better at proving Luther believed in the immaculate conception of Mary.



TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: immaculatemary
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To: BlueDragon

Aw shucks...I never win...


141 posted on 11/20/2013 9:52:50 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool
I don't either. Or rarely. And those who truly do make gentle comments, are seemingly ignored, in that those replies often pass by without eliciting further comment from others. And on second thought, after re-reading that particular "reply" I gave ribbon to, there was some criticism there a few would not find all that reasonable. So I was a too hasty.
142 posted on 11/20/2013 11:47:14 PM PST by BlueDragon
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To: BlueDragon

SEEMINGLY??? ;^)


143 posted on 11/21/2013 3:22:09 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Gamecock
Why should anyone care what Martin Luther thought?

Catholics are only interested in his thought because Protestants are interested in his thought.

144 posted on 11/21/2013 3:28:04 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: BlueDragon
Ah Gee. Just kidding. LOL

What is the focus on Mary? Much of it is man created outside of scriptures. I believe in The Gospel as Christ intended and the Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ as intended. But solely by mans doings salvation and The Gospel have become as far too complicated much like the laws given Israel after the rebellion at Mt Sinai and all added laws by Temple Priest etc up to the time of Christ.

The New Covenant was made simple and basic. It restored mankinds fellowship through Jesus Christ with GOD. I repeat It restored mans fellowship with GOD through Jesus Christ. It fulfilled the burdens of righteousness of the laws that were long ago placed upon us that not even the Temple Priest could withstand no not even Mary without accepting Jesus Christ as savior. Christ did it for her at The Cross same as you and me.

I'll give you an example of modern church laws. What business is it of any church leaders what a family eats at meals at home or when as long as it is not food offered to idols or strangulated? What if the person loathes eating fish or they themselves have objection of conscience? We were free'd at The Cross but sad to say each time GOD has freed mankind, mankind has wasted no time becoming entangled right back into legalisms GOD free'd them of.

Israel had it made. GOD took then safely out of Egypt into a new nation {Median} on their way to The Promised Land. While Moses was on the mountain getting Ten Commandments GOD had for mankind Israel and even the Priest were below making up a false religion and idols. The result was what? GOD Himself put laws upon Israel that would be a burden for many generations. It also cost them 40 years in the Saudi Sinai wilderness.

Jesus Christ free'd us from this except for keeping The actual Commandments. In less than three hundred years after The Cross a church legal system lead by men began laying the groundwork for what would be volumes upon volumes of man decreed writs, laws, dogma, regulations, etc binding members with once again to burdens even their leaders can not endure. Why?

Christ said we need to come to him like a child. This isn't just a RCC issue many Protestant churches have done it as well. Charismatic churches place unnecessary burdens such as requiring "Gifts" of the Spirit as they call it as evidence of ones salvation. Some have their own strict requirements they place upon mankind even as to the very exact wording used in Baptism.

I am a believer in Salvation By Grace only through Jesus Christ alone the simplicity of The Gospel. I also believe the down to earth common sense writings of Paul who spend considerable time addressing legalism of his day. Paul took on what I am talking about head on even with Peter for trying to revert back to some of the old laws aka "Traditions" and placing Jewish traditions upon Gentile to appease Jewish converts or not accepting at times what GOD had called clean.

Believers should not need Church writings, dogma, etc to Preach The Gospel nor to worship. I know of preachers who were illiterate and could not read one word of scripture but could still quote it and refrence chapter and verse.

The Holy Bible and the guidance of The Holy Ghost is sufficent for man. We just like Paul, John, Peter, Mary, all have the privlidge granted us to go to GOD directly and ask in Jesus name our petitions or to go directly to GOD and to Him alone confess our sins and only He alone can forgive us.

If at some point in the future I can ever again return to church I will be looking for simplicity and Christ centered. I can get as much spiritual recharging or message out of sixty minutes of singing as I can a good sermon. I can also pray best when either driving or walking a quiet river trail alone. A Two mile walk generally allows all things to get said. I deeply appreciate preachers who have the discernemnt or gift to understand when either a sermon or simply a singing is needed. I've seen a number of people come forward by song as well as by sermons.

145 posted on 11/21/2013 5:13:59 AM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; ...
Catholics are only interested in his thought because Protestants are interested in his thought.

Says who????

That's only what Catholics believe because they've been taught by other Catholics that non-Catholics care about what Luther thought.

So right here and now, I officially make the declaration that I DON'T CARE what Luther thought about anything.

I care about what SCRIPTURE says about anything.

If what I believe and Luther thought from reading Scripture coincides, it's because Scripture is truth.

I don't believe anything Luther said because Luther said it, I believe what Scripture says because Scripture says it.

146 posted on 11/21/2013 5:34:54 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: cva66snipe

Preach it, brother.


147 posted on 11/21/2013 5:38:29 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: metmom

Ditto that! The mind set that is stuck on following what some fallible human teaches doesn’t seem to understand the concept that man is not to be trusted.


148 posted on 11/21/2013 5:40:57 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Just mythoughts

Perhaps it would be best to discard this word “grace” and use “unmerited favor” or something similar in its place. I should think this would make it much clearer what was being said.


149 posted on 11/21/2013 5:50:51 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: cva66snipe

Well done!!


150 posted on 11/21/2013 5:52:25 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
>> Catholics are only interested in his thought because Protestants are interested in his thought.<<

I can assure you that this non Catholic doesn’t care a wit about what Luther or any other fallible human thought. Following man will always lead to error.

151 posted on 11/21/2013 5:55:46 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Why should anyone care what Martin Luther thought?

Did you perchance read the article?

Even if Martin Luther believed in Mary's immaculate conception, the Reformation does not suffer loss. Neither myself nor the Lutheran church considers Luther to be an infallible source of either interpretation or revelation. However, my Romanist friends need to do a little better at proving Luther believed in the immaculate conception of Mary.

152 posted on 11/21/2013 6:04:53 AM PST by Gamecock (If you like your constitution, you can keep your constitution. Period. (M.S.))
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; Gamecock
Why should anyone care what Martin Luther thought? Catholics are only interested in his thought because Protestants are interested in his thought.

That Martin Luther? He Wasn’t So Bad, Says Pope
The Forum: Rehabilitating Luther: a London Times theory
Vatican spokesman calls rumors of rehabilitation of Luther groundless
Catholic Church called on to revoke Luther's excommunication
Vatican newspaper praises French Protestant John Calvin

153 posted on 11/21/2013 6:06:01 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: metmom
I don't believe anything Luther said because Luther said it, I believe what Scripture says because Scripture says it.

This is a hard teaching!

154 posted on 11/21/2013 6:27:41 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: count-your-change
Perhaps it would be best to discard this word “grace” and use “unmerited favor” or something similar in its place. I should think this would make it much clearer what was being said.

Given that 'grace' is something given it would by definition mean prior to the giving a deity is not being discussed. I in no way mean to take anything away from Mary. Obviously she was appointed to be conceived and birthed to carry out her destiny at a specified time.

I am continually reminded of the instructions given to reverence no man... meaning to elevate a fellow brother/sister is akin to idolatry. But hey, my duty is to plant seeds of truth. Only God saves through His only Begotten Son. And He is the perfect judge.

155 posted on 11/21/2013 8:18:29 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: metmom
"So right here and now, I officially make the declaration that I DON'T CARE what Luther thought about anything.

I care about what SCRIPTURE says about anything.

If what I believe and Luther thought from reading Scripture coincides, it's because Scripture is truth.

I don't believe anything Luther said because Luther said it, I believe what Scripture says because Scripture says it."

I don't know how much plainer one can say it. I suppose I would just add, this goes for any man, not just Luther (but you already intended that, I'm sure). Great post.

156 posted on 11/21/2013 8:54:16 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
I don't know how much plainer one can say it. I suppose I would just add, this goes for any man, not just Luther (but you already intended that, I'm sure). Great post.

That's right for sure.

157 posted on 11/21/2013 10:00:05 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: cva66snipe
I'll give you an example of modern church laws. What business is it of any church leaders what a family eats at meals at home or when as long as it is not food offered to idols or strangulated? What if the person loathes eating fish or they themselves have objection of conscience? We were free'd at The Cross but sad to say each time GOD has freed mankind, mankind has wasted no time becoming entangled right back into legalisms GOD free'd them of.

Indeed.

1 Corinthians 11:

16 Again I say, let no one think me foolish; but if you do, receive me even as foolish, so that I also may boast a little. 17 What I am saying, I am not saying as the Lord would, but as in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting. 18 Since many boast according to the flesh, I will boast also. 19 For you, being so wise, tolerate the foolish gladly. 20 For you tolerate it if anyone enslaves you, anyone devours you, anyone takes advantage of you, anyone exalts himself, anyone hits you in the face. 21 To my shame I must say that we have been weak by comparison.

158 posted on 11/21/2013 10:28:09 AM PST by redleghunter
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To: cva66snipe

Well said, cva. Clapping here!


159 posted on 11/21/2013 10:39:51 AM PST by bonfire
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To: CynicalBear

Or REFUSE to understand. Too frightening for them to find out they might be wrong. There is no greater fear for them than to be called the “H” word which they freely throw around and accuse those who don’t fall in line with their man made beliefs/denomination.

Luther being their favorite. (Which, btw...I get the distinct feeling they secretly admire for his audacity and bravery!)


160 posted on 11/21/2013 11:22:25 AM PST by bonfire
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