Posted on 11/07/2013 10:07:49 PM PST by RBStealth
The Reformation isnt over. But Protestantism is, or should be.
When I studied at Cambridge, I discovered that English Evangelicals define themselves over against the Church of England. Whatever the C of E is, they aint. What Im calling Protestantism does the same with Roman Catholicism. Protestantism is a negative theology; a Protestant is a not-Catholic. Whatever Catholics say or do, the Protestant does and says as close to the opposite as he can.
Mainline churches are nearly bereft of Protestants. If you want to spot one these days, your best bet is to visit the local Baptist or Bible church, though you can find plenty of Protestants among conservative Presbyterians too.
Protestantism ought to give way to Reformational catholicism. Like a Protestant, a Reformational catholic rejects papal claims, refuses to venerate the Host, and doesnt pray to Mary or the saints; he insists that salvation is a sheer gift of God received by faith and confesses that all tradition must be judged by Scripture, the Spirits voice in the conversation that is the Church.
(Excerpt) Read more at firstthings.com ...
Thank you for the great research. Brother Peter's confession is truly the subject of the passage. Not an organizational structure:
The Son of God, Messiah Yeshua...was preached among you by us by me, Silvanus and Timothy. (2 Corinthians 1:19)
You turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10)
Whoever confesses that Yeshua is the Son of God, God abides in him ... whoever believes that Yeshua is the Messiah is begotten by God. (1 John 4:15; 5:1a)
These things have been written that you may believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)
Nor from these CATHOLICS!!!
As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the bishops promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1,
Likewise I accept Sacred Scripture according to that sense which Holy mother Church held and holds, since it is her right to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy scriptures; nor will I ever receive and interpret them except according to the unanimous consent of the fathers. http://mb-soft.com/believe/txs/firstvc.htm
Yet as the Dominican cardinal and Catholic theologian Yves Congar O.P. states,
Unanimous patristic consent as a reliable locus theologicus is classical in Catholic theology; it has often been declared such by the magisterium and its value in scriptural interpretation has been especially stressed. Application of the principle is difficult, at least at a certain level. In regard to individual texts of Scripture total patristic consensus is rare...One example: the interpretation of Peters confession in Matthew 16:16-18. Except at Rome, this passage was not applied by the Fathers to the papal primacy; they worked out an exegesis at the level of their own ecclesiological thought, more anthropological and spiritual than juridical. Yves M.-J. Congar, O.P., p. 71
And Catholic archbishop Peter Richard Kenrick (1806-1896), while yet seeking to support Peter as the rock, stated that,
If we are bound to follow the majority of the fathers in this thing, then we are bound to hold for certain that by the rock should be understood the faith professed by Peter, not Peter professing the faith. Speech of archbishop Kenkick, p. 109; An inside view of the vatican council, edited by Leonard Woolsey Bacon.
Your own CCC allows the interpretation that, On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church, (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424), for some of the ancients (for what their opinion is worth) provided for this or other interpretations.
Ambrosiaster [who elsewhere upholds Peter as being the chief apostle to whom the Lord had entrusted the care of the Church, but not superior to Paul as an apostle except in time], Eph. 2:20:
Wherefore the Lord says to Peter: 'Upon this rock I shall build my Church,' that is, upon this confession of the catholic faith I shall establish the faithful in life. Ambrosiaster, Commentaries on GalatiansPhilemon, Eph. 2:20; Gerald L. Bray, p. 42
Augustine, sermon:
"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer. John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327
Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.
Augustine, sermon:
For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)
Augustine, sermon:
And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289
Augustine, sermon:
Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95
Augustine, sermon:
...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193
Augustine, Psalm LXI:
Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)
Augustine, in Retractions,
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.
Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:
'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.
Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:
You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].
Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:
'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455
Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:
Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)
Cyril of Alexandria:
When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.. Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.
Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):
For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'
For all bear the surname rock who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters. Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)
Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II): Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.
I would be careful throwing out stats like that. You never know....
Yet there are those on FR, professing to be a Christian, that willingly pulled the lever for...
... Romney and his anti-Christian stooges!
Good!
Jesus answered, The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.
1 John 3:21-24
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.
Oh!!
You've added some unnecessary stuff I see...
Is Peter the 'rock'?
As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....
NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. NIV Luke 6:48
He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
4. As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him-- 5. you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6. For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 7. Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, " 8. and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for. But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS??? NIV Genesis 49:24-25 24. But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, 25. because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty, who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb. NIV Numbers 20:8
"Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink." NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he. NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior. NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
30. How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up? 31. For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede. NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
"There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God. NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
2. He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; 3. my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me. NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
"The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior! NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
3. The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God, 4. he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.' NIV Psalms 18:2
The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. NIV Psalms 18:31
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV Psalms 18:46
The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior! NIV Psalms 19:14
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer. NIV Psalms 28:1
To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
2. Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me. 3. Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me. NIV Psalms 42:9
I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?" NIV Psalms 62:2
He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:6
He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:7
My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge. NIV Psalms 71:3
Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress. NIV Psalms 78:35
They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer. NIV Psalms 89:26
He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.' NIV Psalms 92:14-15
14. They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green, 15. proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him." NIV Psalms 95:1
Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation. NIV Psalms 144:1
Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. NIV Isaiah 17:10
You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. NIV Isaiah 26:4
Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal. NIV Isaiah 30:29
And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel. NIV Isaiah 44:8
Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." NIV Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish. |
And now you know the Biblical position!
Let's take another perspective. Let's try it from the Jewish Christian perspective:
OK, time out for a little Jewish roots, and some Greek, teaching here. First of all, Yeshua did say He would build upon this rock. This nickname He gave Simon (pronounced shee-mone) in Hebrew is Kefa. The word kaf, of which Kefa (pronounced keh FAH) is a derivative, means a rock small enough to be lifted with one hand. The Greek for Kefa is Petros, from which we get Peter. The Latin is Cephas. So thats: Hebrew -- Kefa; Greek -- Petros; Latin -- Cephas; English -- Peter, for a small hand-held sized stone.
References are also made in Scripture to the Messiah as being a (The) rock. That word would be tzor, meaning a huge rocky cliff. (Its the word used if you were singing Rock of Ages in Hebrew). Theres yet another word for rock and that is the word ehven, meaning a large cut stone used in construction, particularly the cornerstone. All Israel knew that the cornerstone of Israel meant Messiah, for Isaiah had proclaimed, Thus says the Lord God, Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone, a costly cornerstone (ehven) for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed (Isaiah 28:16).
The word, disturbed in Hebrew is koosh, meaning to hurry, to be eager with excitement, to make haste. When were disturbed, were usually in some press to fix it, to change things so we eliminate whats disturbing us. Its pretty clear that those who were not favorable to Yeshua were in fact disturbed by Him, enough to want to plot to murder Him. Thats pretty disturbed. And they surely acted in a hurry to get that mock trial over with to get Him out of the way, thinking they would no longer be disturbed by Him.
On the other hand, as our faith is founded more and more on Yeshua as the cornerstone that anchors our lives and keeps us square with Him, we are less and less disturbed or in a hurry about things because we have learned to pray and trust in Him and rest in Him while we wait for Him to work out what concerns us. Thats why Paul, who ought to know, told us to Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God (Phil. 4:6).
So, Peter wasnt nicknamed anything remotely equivalent to Messiah. He was a smaller, less significant stone than the Cornerstone. What then was Yeshua saying? What was the rock upon which He was building? Peter had just told Yeshua, "You are the Messiah" (Mark 8:29). It was this rock of revelation of who Yeshua is that Peter received from the Father! Thats the rock upon which the church stands. And we can have no true understanding of who Yeshua is unless the Father imparts it to us. Yeshua said, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father" (John 6:65). But once we have that revelation in our own hands (like a small rock, so to speak), not only are our lives changed, but we are meant to change the lives of those around us. What Yeshua did not mean was that Peter was to be the father of faith, or that he was to be the first Pope. Pope simply means papa or padre. It was not Peter himself, but what Peter had come to understand about Yeshua that Yeshua would build upon. Even though Peter understood Yeshua to be the Messiah and even called Him the Son of God (Matt 26:63), he could have no idea at that point that Yeshua was literally The Son of God, divinity come in the flesh. Still, it is on Yeshua, not any man, that the Kingdom is established, exists and maintains, even forever. It is the revelation of who Yeshua is upon which the foundation and cornerstone are laid, not upon Peter as the Roman Catholic Church has affirmed for millennia.
Much more here:
Stats? Links?
No practicing Catholic, who truly believes Christ is present in the Eucharist, would leave Christ to be a protestant.
I don't doubt that, but when people come to realize that Christ dwells in our hearts through faith, and that they don't need to eat Jesus to have Him live in them, then they gladly give up the deceit that they have been indoctrinated with their entire lives.
And the truth of the matter about Billy Graham is he loved Catholics and had a great relationship with Catholics and all the Popes he personally knew.
Sources? Links?
The Bible-thumpers, i.e., pentacostals in particular, despise Billy Graham because of his relationship to Catholics and his refusing to call them anything but fellow Christians.
Really? Do you have proof for that as well?
Interesting, isn’t it, that Peter himself says that CHRIST is the rock. Peter never makes that claim for himself.
I’m not the one who needs to read Scripture. Try it yourself for a change.
*************************************************************
1 Peter 2:4-8 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture:
Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,
and
A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
Really? You know this how?
Sources and links?
“Again, the passage you quoted said exactly NOTHING about
opposing vernacular translations.”
Hmmmm...perhaps you need some help with translating English into English...
How dangerous it is to allow the reading of the Bible in the vernacular to unlearned people and those not piously or humbly disposed...Considering the nature of men, the translation of the Bible into the vernacular must in the present be regarded therefore as dangerous and pernicious...
“Really? You know this how?”
Simple. There are tens of thousands of independent Protestant sects in the U.S. alone. In my town, for instance, there are at least six Protestant sects which own property and hung out a shingle for their church that I just found on the internet. Those 6 by the way are completely unique sects not part of a larger synod, larger denomination (i.e. as a Lutheran parish would be). I am not counting the Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian churches, etc.
This is in a town of under 3 square miles and with a population under 10,000. Now, let’s err on the side of caution. Let’s do some basic math but for a population of 150,000,000 rather than 260,000,000 (which is the population of non-Catholics in the U.S.A.). If we use those numbers we end up with at least 15,000 Protestant sects. And remember, that would be a cautious number. If you talk to any IRS agent who approves tax exempt filings you’ll see that new sects are applying all the time. I am just being cautious and saying “every few days”. In reality it is probably every hour of the work day at least. And remember, this is just in America. This is also happening on a massive scale in Africa, Asia, etc.
“Sources and links?”
By the way, did you know the “Hartford Institute estimates there are roughly 350,000 religious congregations in the United States. This estimate relies on the RCMS 2010 religious congregations census. Of those, about 314,000 are Protestant and other Christian churches, and 24,000 are Catholic and Orthodox churches.”
So-called “non-denominational churches” which are really just denominations unto themselves are located in 2,663 out of the total of 3,033 counties in the country in the U.S. That means there are 2,663 different denominations right there. Remember, there are 6 “non-denominational” churches in my little town alone.
http://hirr.hartsem.edu/research/fastfacts/fast_facts.html
“which holds itself as the elite and only one True Church”
Hey Tonto, that’s because it is.
“He established the catholic church”.
You’re exactly right and Martin Luther and his minions decided to break away from that church......after 1,500 years of being CATHOLIC.
“Hmmmm...perhaps you need some help with translating English into English...”
First, let’s go back to the original source you are using:
“The indexes of the Sorbonne, which by royal edict were binding, after 1544 contained the statement: “How dangerous it is to allow the reading of the Bible in the vernacular to unlearned people and those not piously or humbly disposed (of whom there are many in our times) may be seen from the Waldensians, Albigenses, and Poor Men of Lyons, who have thereby lapsed into error and have led many into the same condition. Considering the nature of men, the translation of the Bible into the vernacular must in the present be regarded therefore as dangerous and pernicious” (Reusch, ut sup., i, 151).”
So, right off the bat we see that this was never issued by the Catholic Church in the first place. The University of Sorbonne was not a pope, or council or canon law or what have you. It had no authority in the matter except what was granted it by the king. Hence the phrase: “which by royal edict were binding”.
So, even if it said what you claim it said, it tells us nothing about the Catholic Church.
Second, the source clearly cites the Waldensians and Albigensians - heretics who distorted the Bible and its teachings. Also, the source says “at the present”. Thus, it cannot be taken as opposing the vernacular translation of scripture in itself but the abuse of it and the contemporary dangers.
And again, it is the Church which issued that index nor is it the Church which enforced it.
I suggest that when you use a source you actually do it more carefully in the future.
Questions and Answers about the Marks and Attributes of the Church
152. Which is the one true Church established by Christ?
The one true Church established by Christ is the Catholic Church.
(a) Many churches which claim to be Christian have broken away from the one true Church established by Jesus Christ. These churches were founded by men who had no authority from God to found a church.
(b) Christ intended that there should be only one true Christian Church, for He always spoke of His Church as one.
153. How do we know that the Catholic Church is the one true Church established by Christ?
We know that the Catholic Church is the one true Church established by Christ because it alone has the marks of the true Church..................
http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/chura2a.htm
Christianity was a split itself, while under both Sola Scriptura (or even Sola Prima) and Sola Ecclesia, that of Catholicism and major cults, you also have sects and schisms.
Your soliloquy is just that.
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