Posted on 10/26/2013 6:56:10 AM PDT by NYer
There are 38 questions + a few bonus questions. I have split them into two separate posts of 20 and 18 + bonus questions. Are you ready?
1. Where did Jesus give instructions that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book?
2. Other than the specific command to John to pen the Revelation, where did Jesus tell His apostles to write anything down and compile it into an authoritative book?
3. Where in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based solely on a book?
4. Some Protestants claim that Jesus condemned all oral tradition (e.g., Matt 15:3, 6; Mark 7:813). If so, why does He bind His listeners to oral tradition by telling them to obey the scribes and Pharisees when they “sit on Moses’ seat” (Matt 23:2)?
5. Some Protestants claim that St. Paul condemned all oral tradition (Col 2:8). If so, why does he tell the Thessalonians to “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thes 2:15) and praises the Corinthians because they “hold firmly to the traditions” (1 Cor 11:2)?
(And why does the Protestant NIV change the word “tradition” to “teaching”?)
6. If the authors of the New Testament believed in sola Scriptura, why did they sometimes draw on oral Tradition as authoritative and as God’s Word (Matt 2:23; 23:2; 1 Cor 10:4; 1 Pet 3:19; Jude 9, 14 15)?
7. Where in the Bible is God’s Word restricted only to what is written down?
8. How do we know who wrote the books that we call Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Hebrews, and 1, 2, and 3 John?
9. On what authority, or on what principle, would we accept as Scripture books that we know were not written by one of the twelve apostles?
10. Where in the Bible do we find an inspired and infallible list of books that should belong in the Bible? (e.g., Is the Bible’s Table of Contents inspired?)
11. How do we know, from the Bible alone, that the individual books of the New Testament are inspired, even when they make no claim to be inspired?
12. How do we know, from the Bible alone, that the letters of St. Paul, who wrote to first- century congregations and individuals, are meant to be read by us as Scripture 2000 years later?
13. Where does the Bible claim to be the sole authority for Christians in matters of faith and morals?
14. Most of the books of the New Testament were written to address very specific problems in the early Church, and none of them are a systematic presentation of Christian faith and theology. On what biblical basis do Protestants think that everything that the apostles taught is captured in the New Testament writings?
15. If the books of the New Testament are “self-authenticating” through the ministry of the Holy Spirit to each individual, then why was there confusion in the early Church over which books were inspired, with some books being rejected by the majority?
16. If the meaning of the Bible is so clear—so easily interpreted—and if the Holy Spirit leads every Christian to interpret it for themselves, then why are there over 33,000 Protestant denominations, and millions of individual Protestants, all interpreting the Bible differently?
17. Who may authoritatively arbitrate between Christians who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit into mutually contradictory interpretations of the Bible?
18. Since each Protestant must admit that his or her interpretation is fallible, how can any Protestant in good conscience call anything heresy or bind another Christian to a particular belief?
19. Protestants usually claim that they all agree “on the important things.” Who is able to decide authoritatively what is important in the Christian faith and what is not?
20. How did the early Church evangelize and overthrow the Roman Empire, survive and prosper almost 350 years, without knowing for sure which books belong in the canon of Scripture?
Tomorrow's will get the same:
Genesis 3:3
In the beginning... Satan attacked the Word of God... and continues to do so.
“Did God REALLY ssssssay.....?”
Hush!
The logically challenged may catch on!
And that is NOT the way Jesus taught us how to pray. Since it is your salvation that is at risk, and since the scriptures tell us to workout our salvation with fear and trembling, it is your choice. Add to the scriptures as much as you want. Follow all of the traditions of man that you want. Just don't expect others to follow you (or the Catholic Church) as long as you are NOT following the teachings of Jesus.
Wow... praying to someone besides God...
just like those folks praying to Obama.
“Around the year A.D. 107, a bishop, St. Ignatius of Antioch in the Near East, was arrested, brought to Rome by armed guards and eventually martyred there in the arena. In a farewell letter which this early bishop and martyr wrote to his fellow Christians in Smyrna (today Izmir in modern Turkey), he made the first written mention in history of “the Catholic Church.”
All Christians believe in the Universal Church. We just don’t limit it to one single church in Rome...
Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3 nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.
Not quite. Like obedience to civil powers,. (Rm. 13:1-7; 1Pt. 2:14) the Lord enjoins conditional obedience, as long as it does not conflict with Scripture. Yet historical descent neither provides assured veracity or perpetuation thru that means, thus God often raised up men from outside the magisterium to preserve faith. And thus the church began and has continued as the body of Christ.
Not quite. Like obedience to civil powers,. (Rm. 13:1-7; 1Pt. 2:14) the Lord enjoins conditional obedience, as long as it does not conflict with Scripture. Yet historical descent neither provides assured veracity or perpetuation thru that means, thus God often raised up men from outside the magisterium to preserve faith. And thus the church began and has continued as the body of Christ.
I disagree, though mildly - your point is taken, except in that the authority of the Pharisees, according to their tradition, cannot be found. Their claim upon that authority, direct descent from Moses by laying on of hands, and the 'oral torah' supposedly handed down to them through Moses, has no means of authentication - much like our FRoman FRiends claims. And in keeping with that, Yeshua struck down the oral torah at every turn - slapping it down violently with every notable example - while guarding and keeping the Torah perfectly.
It was not about bowing to their authority - It cannot be, because they did not possess the authority they claimed.
And there's the problem ... Is there to be only one Church or many? According to Scripture, Christ wanted us to be one (John 17:22-23). We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to think the same (Philippians 2:2; Romans 15:5). There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6), not many. For the Church is Christ's Body and Christ only had one Body, not many. Also, since the Church is Christ's Bride (Ephesians 5:29), can Christ be married to more than one wife (essentially a spiritual form of the the sin of polygamy)? No, Christ can only have one wife (i.e., one Church, not many).
Sorry to be frank, but that post is gibberish.
One universal church means one body of Christ, one Bride, which includes every believer of all time. Christ wants unity and love, not worldly uniformity. There is one faith that trusts His sacrifice, instead of religious rituals and works.
Look up to Him, NYer. Not down below.
There is no mention of worldly uniformity in Christ's words. Let's look at what He says:
They do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world.
Consecrate them in the truth. Your word is truth
John 17:16-17
Notice He uses the word "truth", not truths. Truth is in the singular, not the plural. Hence, there can be only ONE Truth, not many. He then goes on to say:
“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one,
I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.
John 17:20-23
Love it!
“They do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world.
Consecrate them in the truth. Your word is truth “
John 17:16-17
“Notice He uses the word “truth”, not truths. Truth is in the singular, not the plural. Hence, there can be only ONE Truth, not many. He then goes on to say:”
Notice He says “your Word is truth” - not your traditions are truth!
His word is truth. Of course there aren’t many truths.
“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word”
Notice He does not say “believe through their traditions!
Yeah, His Word is Truth and not a single churches’ interpretation or belief about His Word.
Try again.
The Church headed only by Jesus Christ is made up of all his sheep not just any named church. Jesus addressed this jealousy with his Disciples when they came to Him about a sect using his name to cast out demons etc. Jesus didn't say you go tell them ask Peter first or for them to stop.
I've posted this question before as well. Under who's authority was Paul? The authority of Pater as first Pope as some call him or called by Jesus Christ? What does Paul say? There were in fact MANY churches as well as many written accounts of The Gospel as Luke states.
There was no succession to Peter as there was no succession to the Apostles rather we are all as believers Jesus disciples. Not one of the Apostles is mentioned going into the Temples and start acting like the Aaron Priest {Old Testament ritualistic priest trying to justify by law} of the day. Rather the Disciples and Asposles were preachers much the same as what you would see outside of the Roman Catholic church. Their focus was not on repetition of rituals or laws upon laws of mans doings. It was a simple and straight forward message preaching The Good News of Salvation through Jesus Christ.
Jesus gave specific Gifts to His Apostles beyond that of The Holy Spirit which all believers are taught and lead to truth by. That has been quite evident in the past 2000 years. Many of the gifts they held including the ability to raise one from death remained with them and did not follow thereafter. IOW no walking into a crowd and persons being healed, raised from the dead, etc by a specific person on an ongoing basis. That ended with the physical death of The Apostiles. Are their still miracles GOD grants persons? Yes. But as such the ones claiming sucession to Peter do not have the Gifts The Apostles had.
The Temple is within as Christ through The Holy Spirit dwells in us. If two persons are praying in His name He is there.
It's amazing. It's like looking at Israel's Exodus under Moses. GOD made it so simple for Moses and Israel to leave Egypt and placed no heavy burden upon them doing so except Ten Commandments. In steps man to mess it up by worshiping a Golden Calf and their rituals over that of a what GOD established. Jesus tells us “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke fits perfectly, and the burden I give you is light".
What is light about men over 1800 years adding their own laws, their own rules, their own conditions, and they in fact are not The Apostles? A system placing believers being under needing the constant the intercession of others for forgiveness of sin instead of the One On One relationship we inherit as believers in Christ makes a mockery of it because if man could save man Christ suffering was in vain and I do not believe in such. There is not one verse in the Bible that directly links calling upon the physically dead for intervention for us to petition Jesus Christ. It was tried with the physically dead in hell asking favor of Abraham. Jesus said pray to The Father in His name. Asking the living to pray for you is one thing, asking favor of the physically dead is quite another.
Matthew chapter 6 5“And now about prayer. When you pray, don’t be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I assure you, that is all the reward they will ever get. 6But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father secretly. Then your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you. 7“When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered only by repeating their words again and again. 8Don’t be like them, because your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9Pray like this:
Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored.
10May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done here on earth, just as it is in heaven.
11Give us our food for today,£ 12and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven those who have sinned against us.
13And don’t let us yield to temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.£
Can we expand and say Lord please help me with this issue or that issue, please help my son, daughter, mother, father, etc? Yes. Speak your heart as you are asking Your Father. He will hear you. Say it in earnest heart and your prayer is heard. It doesn't take anything else.
Yes we can go alone and pray directly to GOD and be forgiven. GOD knows our sins. Forgiveness of our sins is not dependent upon a confession to Preacher Jones, Father Smith, or any earthly being. When was this privilege described below revoked?
9Then Jesus told this story to some who had great self-confidence and scorned everyone else: 10“Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a dishonest tax collector. 11The proud Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: ‘I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else, especially like that tax collector over there! For I never cheat, I don’t sin, I don’t commit adultery, 12I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’ 13“But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.’ 14I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For the proud will be humbled, but the humble will be honored.”
Who did he pray with? He was alone likely. Whom did he pray too? GOD. When our forgiveness of sin, the dismissing of our soul, the ability of other men to use/abuse a position they claim on things like purgatory which after Christ resurrection is not needed as He and He alone overcame sin and taken our sins away completely, death, hell, and the grave, depending on others for these issues would place us in extreme danger if it were in fact allowed. Place your trust in GOD.
Finally if a Master owns thousands of sheep how many flocks would he have? He may have white sheep in one pasture tended by one shepherd, spotted sheep in another, etc. They are all his sheep. Shepherd Jones may tend herd one way with his flock and shepherd Stevens another. Does the fact the shepherds to not tend the herds the same way take away from the fact they are still the Master's sheep? No. The Master says where the sheep are to be kept. There is your answer to one church. Catholics, Methodist, Church of Christ, Church of GOD, Assembly of GOD, Baptist, etc all the sheep belong to The Master.
The of one mind you demand was not completely possible even with the Apostles as even they had their differences of opinion. But in the end when we all face our time before GOD it won't be the church that says yea or nay to our eternal reward it will be Jesus Christ.
The last church I attended had the church charter or creed handing up in the church. It was about 3' by 5' and essentually was a stated profession of faith. Churches need to get back to spreading The Gospel which is what Christ instructed.
Bump for later
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