Posted on 09/20/2013 9:52:07 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Yesterday was not a good day for right-wing Catholics. To the great delight of their opponents, Pope Francis declared himself outside that fold. “I have never been a right-winger,” he said. Roll over, Benedict, and tell JPII the news.
Of course, Catholic conservatives being what they are, the first move was to insist that the MSM had misrepresented what the pope said in his 12,000-word interview with the editor of the Jesuit newspaper Civilità Cattolica (translated and published simultaneously in a dozen Jesuit newspapers around the world).
“The New York Times headline reads: ‘Pope Bluntly Faults Church’s Focus on Gays and Abortion.’” Kathryn Jean Lopez began over at NRO’s Corner. “Believe it or not, though, he talked about more than sex.” “Please, folks,” pleaded Phil Lawler of CatholicCulture.org, “don’t be trapped in unproductive debates about what some uninformed reporter claims the Pope said.”
Sure, the Times and the rest of the MSM focused on what Francis had to say about the neuralgic issues that have held center stage for the American hierarchy in the last decade or so. To wit:
We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.
Among the reprimanders would be Bishop Thomas Tobin of Providence, who told his diocesan newspaper last week, “I’m a little bit disappointed in Pope Francis that he hasn’t, at least that I’m aware of, said much about unborn children, about abortion, and many people have noticed that. I think it would be very helpful if Pope Francis would address more directly the evil of abortion and to encourage those who are involved in the pro-life movement.” By contrast, the pope said, “The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.” Capisce, Bishop Tobin?
Moreover, to pretend that this did not lie at the core of Francis’ message is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting la-la-la-la-la.
Proclamation in a missionary style focuses on the essentials, on the necessary things: this is also what fascinates and attracts more, what makes the heart burn, as it did for the disciples at Emmaus. We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel. The proposal of the Gospel must be more simple, profound, radiant. It is from this proposition that the moral consequences then flow.
The pope’s “new balance” is that the church must dial up the essentials of the Gospel, and dial back the less necessary moral issues.
Over at the American Conservative, ex-Catholic Rod Dreher, no longer constrained to identify papal pronouncements with his own religious outlook, called a spade a spade.
I love his style — seriously, I do — but I am sure the liberal Pope has been very, very naive in his words here. Look at the weight the media, who amplify his words, put on the homosexuality, contraception, and abortion parts of a very long interview. The world wants to be told, “It’s okay, do what you like.” He no doubt doesn’t mean at all for that to be the lesson of his words, but that’s how they will be received. For liberals and Moralistic Therapeutic Deists within Catholicism, it’s springtime. For traditionalists and conservatives in the Catholic Church, it’s going to be a long winter. It was easy for conservative Catholics to be strong papalists under John Paul II and Benedict. This papacy is going to be a time of trial for them.
Personally, Francis doesn’t strike me as the naive type. While I don’t have a dog in this fight either, I think there are a lot of Catholics who would like to be on board a less less genitally obsessed church not because they’re looking for a moral free ride but because they want something else from their church.
As for me, I’d like to see some evidence that the right-wingers, who love to talk about the importance of the magisterium, are taking the pope’s magisterial pronouncement seriously. As in: “Gee, maybe we have been too preoccupied with abortion, gay marriage, and contraception. Thanks, Your Holiness, for the paternal correction about the need for the church to re-balance itself as it makes its way in the contemporary world.”
But I’m not holding my breath.
Thanks, I'm sure that the cicar of Christ on Earth will appreciate your assistance. If I get to make the choice between your interpretation of scripture, and that of the Pope.......I think i'll go with........ready for the answer.........THE POPE!!!!!!!
“Thanks, I’m sure that the cicar of Christ on Earth will appreciate your assistance. If I get to make the choice between your interpretation of scripture, and that of the Pope.......I think i’ll go with........ready for the answer.........THE POPE!!!!!!!”
Well, hopefully when you fall down the ditch, he’ll be there to break your fall!
cicar VICAR
The author and everyone else needs to read the entire interview.
http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview
Complete text
Do you really believe the lamestream media. Read the entire interview, please.
That was not what Pope Francis said.
the Catholic church is infallible in matters of faith and morals...Christ promised to be with her until the end of time....I'll take my chances and try my best not to reject Christ as so many others have done.
Nonsense, it's run by fallible humans.
People very often get two words mixed up here.
Infallible —
and Impeccable.
We are all impeccable....we can all make a mistake.
Through the Holy Spirit, much prayer, determination, proof, etc. a doctrine or dogma is pronounced infalliable — note the entrance of the Holy Spirit in this process.
“I’ll take my chances”
Too bad all you have is the “chance.” I’ve got the confidence of the Word of God. Much superior to the gamble of letting filthy old liberals and idolaters do your thinking for you.
In other words, your assertion could be wrong ;-)
I don’t have a Pope.
I have a relationship with Jesus/God.
There is no bureaucracy between us.
oh, the popes are fallible allright, but Christ promised that in matters of faith and morals, they would never teach in error.....does that mean that they could not sin on their own...of course not, but in matters pertaining to official teachings, they would be protected from error.
so far it has worked just fine!!!!
Christ never said the Catholic Church or Pope would never be in error. Nor would I believe for a second that they never have been in error before.
and the word of God that you cherish so much came from the bible and the bible was happily presented to you by...........guess who..........THE CATHOLIC CHURCH...at least say thanks!
whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, whatsoever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.......do you think that He would allow the Catholic Church to bind something in error that He would also have to bind in heaven????
if you can find an error that any Pope has ever made in official church teachings (not behavior) then you would be the first person in history to do so......millions have tried!!
“and the word of God that you cherish so much came from the bible and the bible was happily presented to you by...........guess who..........THE CATHOLIC CHURCH...at least say thanks!”
Why would I thank Babylon for something the Apostles wrote, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost? You stick with your dead idols and what you know, and I’ll stick with the scriptures.
of course they were written by the evangalists and the apostles, of course they were inspired by the Holy Spirit.....that was 2,000 years ago. How do you think that you have access to something written by a handfull of people in an obscure part of the middle east??? The early believers and followers of Christ were the beginnings of Catholicism and it is those people who recorded the writings, edited them, transcribed them, hand copied them in Catholic monastaries for 2,000 years....Virtually noone had a copy of the bible until modern times....first of all they couldn't afford it, secondly the VAST majority of them couldn,t read it. Throught the ages, Catholics preserved the holy books and writings, translated them into every language on earth, and thanks to the printing press, you can have your own copy.......say THANKS CATHOLICS!!!!!
“of course they were written by the evangalists and the apostles, of course they were inspired by the Holy Spirit.....that was 2,000 years ago. How do you think that you have access to something written by a handfull of people in an obscure part of the middle east??? “
Certainly it had nothing to do with Rome. Even in the 4th century, you guys considered the epistle to the Hebrews to be a fraudulent work, since you were too incompetent to answer the heretics who abused it. The Greek churches also put out Revelation, for similar reasons.
Luckily God is in control and not fallible men, and thank God again that the Papists don’t have any of the history or tradition that they fantasize to have.
“Virtually noone had a copy of the bible until modern times....first of all they couldn’t afford it, secondly the VAST majority of them couldn,t read it. “
I forgot to reply to this, but this is very ignorant. Even Polycarp, in his letter to the churches, not only quotes the scriptures heavily, but even speaks of the scriptures as something that they owned and were well versed in. Indeed, between Papias, Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, and Irenaeus, almost every single book in the New Testament was quoted from and taught from. The Christians were a lot more literate than you give them credit for. Maybe believers in Roman Catholicism are mostly illiterate, but people back then weren’t idiots.
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