Posted on 09/19/2013 5:41:50 PM PDT by James R. Aist
Many in the Christian church today have, at best, a rudimentary understanding of what Jesus was talking about when he said "You must be born again." False teachers are often quick to invent their own concept of "born again" apart from sound biblical information, so be careful to compare what they teach to the Word of God. A good grasp of the biblical teaching on this subject is important to the understanding of how God saves people and transforms their lives – the very essence of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
(Excerpt) Read more at ipost.christianpost.com ...
He baptized Jesus so that Jesus would be revealed to the world.
John 1:29-34
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’ I myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.” And John bore witness: “I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”
I heard that hitting rock bottom is the catalyst for some, others financial, others health....it is different for each one of us.
I truly was at the end of myself and pretty broken and knew it was going to take Someone Great to put me all back together...and boy did all the bible teaching and stuff about Jesus come roaring back. God also placed some born again believers in my path at work at that same time and they gave me Christian books that helped me.
Neat things happened all along the way in those first several years to bolster and help me keep my faith. God has some interesting ways of breaking in on you to remind you not to give up and keep faith. Once I was grounded in His word, they became fewer and far between. It is definitely a growing and maturing process.
Anyway, we will both pray that for you, kevao.....for you to have NO DOUBT!
God bless you,
jodyel
Have you considered that what we inherit from Adam IS A HUMAN SPIRIT, but that without God-life in our human spirit, that human spirit exists in what Jesus taught is a strate of deadness. The spirit is in all descended from Adam, but it is alive in ONLY those to whom God has graced the earnest of their inheritance, namely God-Life, life issuing from His Spirit. A careful and honest reading of the Bible indicates that the spirit of man can exist ina deadness state and will show up in that state at Judgment. The parable of the Wedding guests is a good place to start in understanding this interesting state of deadness/one without the wedding garment.
Travel safely, dear one.
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"2 Corinthians 5:17-20
17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
18. All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19. that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us.
We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.
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The world today wants to do what ever they desire and then later pray for forgiveness.
We do sin, we do pray for forgiveness. We are to have a changed life, the evidence of a changed heart. we are to become the image of Jesus Christ.
God is not mocked.
“God is not mocked” Galatians 6:7
We're talking about FR history not about Emperor Nero!
Yes, in the anthropology of man, I have studied the perspective that we have a human spirit prior to being born again, but 1Cor Chap 2 tends to teach another perspective.
1Co 2:11-16
(11) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
(12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
(13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(15) But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
(16) For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
..”.neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
This implies prior to being reborn we do not have the faculties to spiritually discern the spiritual domain.
Where the spiritual domain influences the soul or the body, we may perceive things of rationale or the bodily senses, and we might even quickly deduce or infer the existence of something supernatural, but that is a different perception than faith.
Read Chapter 2 of 1stCor, then confess your sins and make sure you are in fellowship with God by 1st John 1:9, then reread afresh Chapter 2 of 1st Corinthians, but this time allow God to spiritually teach His Word to you as you think the words.
People confuse the joy in the heart of a believer manifest in his appearance with simple bliss or naivety, but while in fellowship with God through faith in Christ these manifestations may frequently appear to the natural man of somebody spiritually discerning with the mind of Christ.
Would you like to try again, and address what I did offer? There is much you could seek to harangue, since I also hold to the notion that humankind without a spirit existed around Eden when God made Adam from the dust of the ground and vbreathed into him the breath of God-life, which Adam extinguished when he sinned, willfully disobeying God. The spirit remained, but it was in astate of deadness, a state which Jesus addresses on more than one occasion.
I didn’t even consider you meant a human spirit prior to physical or soulish birth.
Believers now are trichotomous, not dichotomous. Once saved with the human spirit created by God and placed in us by God the Holy Spirit, we remain saved, though we may fall out of fellowship.
Adam had all three, but are you saying our parents give us our human spirit or is it created by God?
nice canned Christian response, but how can that come about. The bible speaks of being still and knowing that He is God. It also says that our Father already knows what se need...so I see that the church is totally lost the teaching history and has lost the fine art of true prayer that does indeed put people onto the true path of being born again.
When Jesus told His disciples to 'let the dead go bury the dead', what do you think He meant to convey to them?
All of those who need the Salvation Grace of God in Christ are made in the image of God, as trichotomous beings, having what Paul addressed to Timotheus: body, soul, and spirit. Before being born again, we are not dichotomous beings, because one of the three sapects of our being is there, but dead without God-Life in it. Jesus is the Grace of God, and by Him is the existing spirit in man's soul made alive again, thus being 'born again'. When we enter this air world from the water world, we bring with us all three components which have us in the 'image of God'. That is the state which Adam enjoyed when God breathed into him the breath of "REAL" Life, God-life. The humankind around Eden (and specifically 'eastward from eden) did not have this trichotomous reality since it was not created in any created beings until it was manifest in Adam and His descendants. The breath which came into humankind prior to Adam originated in the natural world and was of the natural sort. The breath which God breathed into Adam that made him alive was of the spirit; Adam did not come forth from the water world of amniotic fluid. But all of Adam's descendants do come froth from that water world, hence Jesus told Nicodemus that unless a man os born of water AND the Spirit, he cannot see the Kingdom of God. That is the way God does it now, since Adam fell from Grace. When Seth came along, man again began calling upon the Lord ...
Born "from Above" Vs. "Again. The Greek word Anothon occurs exactly 12 times in 12 verses in the New Testament. The four words we are concerned with are Anothon which the Catholics contend means "From above" and the Fundies contend means again. The second word is Apanow, which means above/ over.
The third word is Palon- that really does mean again and Deuteron that means secondly. If the Protestants are correct when we look at each of these verses we should be able to substitute either word and have it make perfect sense. I have included several verses that use the word Palon to document the common use of that word. You will also notice that in John 3:4 that Nicodemus does not use either Palon or Anothon, but rather Deuteron, meaning secondly or second.
Matt 27:50 But Jesus cried out again (Palon) in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit.
Matt 27:51 And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (Anthon) to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split.
Mark 15:38 The veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (above anthon) to bottom. Luke 1:3 I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew (From their source anthon), to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus,
John 3: 3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above (Anthon)."
John 3: 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again (duetron secondly)? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?"
John 3:31 The one who comes from above (Anthon) is above (Anthon) all. The one who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of earthly things. But the one who comes from heaven (is above all).
John 19:11 Jesus answered (him), "You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above (Anthon). For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin."
John 19:23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his clothes and divided them into four shares, a share for each soldier. They also took his tunic, but the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from the top (Anthon) down.
Acts 26:5 They have known about me from the start (Anthon) From the first), if they are willing to testify, that I have lived my life as a Pharisee, the strictest party of our religion.
Galatians 4:9 but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again (Palon) Untranslated word Anthon (anew) to the weak and destitute elemental powers? Do you want to be slaves to them all over again (Palon)?
James 1: 17 all good giving and every perfect gift is from above (Anthon), coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no alteration or shadow caused by change.
James 3: 15 Wisdom of this kind does not come down from above (Anthon) but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.
James 3: 17But the wisdom from above (Anthon) is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, without inconstancy or insincerity.
All 12 verses with the Greek Translation Matt 27:50But Jesus cried out again (Palon) in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit. (Jesus did not cry out from above, he cried out a second time)
Mat 27:50 o de ihsouv palin kraxav fwnh megalh afhken to pneuma
Matt 27:51And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (Anothon) to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split,(The veil was not torn "again" it was torn from top to bottom)
Mat 27:51kai idou to katapetasma tou naou esxisqh ap eiv duo apo anwqen ewv katw eiv duo kai h gh eseisqh kai ai petrai esxisqhsan
Mark 15:38 The veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (above Anothon) to bottom. (See above, no pun intended)
Mar 15:38 kai to katapetasma tou naou esxisqh eiv duo ap apo anwqen ewv katw
Luke 1:3 I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew (From their source Anothon), to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus,(This is the only verse that you could conceivably substitute "Again", but the colloquial "From their source makes better sense)
Luke 1:3 edoxe edoxen kamoi parhkolouqhkoti anwqen pasin akribwv kaqexhv soi grayai kratiste qeofile
John 3: 3Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above (Anothon)."(Verse in contention, no comment required)
John 3:3 apekriqh o ihsouv kai eipen autw amhn amhn legw soi ean mh tiv gennhqh anwqen ou dunatai idein thn basileian tou qeou
John 3: 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again (duetron secondly)? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?" (Here is where the Prots really put their foot in it. Nicodemus never says again (Palon) he says Secondly (Deuteron)
John 3:4 legei prov auton o o nikodhmov pwv dunatai anqrwpov gennhqhnai gerwn wn mh dunatai eiv thn koilian thv mhtrov autou deuteron eiselqein kai gennhqhnai
John 3:31The one who comes from above (Anothon) is above (Apanow) all. The one who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of earthly things. But the one who comes from heaven (is above all).(Those that come" again" are "again" all, Makes no sense at all.)
Joh 3:31 o anwqen erxomenov epanw pantwn estin o wn ek thv ghv ek thv ghv estin kai ek thv ghv lalei o ek tou ouranou erxomenov epanw epanw pantwn estin estin
John 19:11Jesus answered (him), "You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above (Anothon). For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin." (Pilate was not given power again, he was given it from above, God allowed him to have power)
John 19:11 apekriqh autw o ihsouv ouk eixev exousian oudemian kat emou oudemian ei mh hn soi dedomenon soi anwqen dia touto o paradouv paradidouv me soi meizona amartian exei
John 19:23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his clothes and divided them into four shares, a share for each soldier. They also took his tunic, but the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from the top (Anothon) down. (The tunic was not woven again, it was woven from the top down)
John 19:23 oi oun stratiwtai ote estaurwsan ton ihsoun elabon ta imatia autou kai epoihsan tessara merh ekastw stratiwth merov kai ton xitwna hn de o xitwn arafov arrafov ek twn anwqen ufantov di olou
Acts 26:5 They have known about me from the start (Anothon, From the first), if they are willing to testify, that I have lived my life as a Pharisee, the strictest party of our religion. (They did not know about Paul "again" they new about him from the beginning)
Act 26:5 proginwskontev me anwqen ean qelwsi qelwsin marturein oti kata thn akribestathn airesin thv hmeterav qrhskeiav ezhsa farisaiov
Galatians 4:9 but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again (Palon) Untranslated word Anothon (anew) to the weak and destitute elemental powers? Do you want to be slaves to them all over again (Palon)? (The phrase "from above" clearly does not fit here)
Gal 4:9 nun de gnontev qeon mallon de gnwsqentev upo qeou pwv epistrefete palin epi ta asqenh kai ptwxa stoixeia oiv palin anwqen douleuein qelete
James 1:17 all good giving and every perfect gift is from above (Anothon), coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no alteration or shadow caused by change. (Is the gift coming "again", no it is coming from God, who is "From above")
Jas 1:17 pasa dosiv agaqh kai pan dwrhma teleion anwqen estin katabainon apo tou patrov twn fwtwn par w ouk eni parallagh h trophv aposkiasma
James 3:15 Wisdom of this kind does not come down from above (Anothon) but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. (See Previous)
Jas 3:15 ouk estin auth h sofia anwqen katerxomenh alla all epigeiov yuxikh daimoniwdhv
James 3:17 But the wisdom from above (Anothon) is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, without inconstancy or insincerity. (Again the wisdom is "from above", not "again")
Jas 3:17 h de anwqen sofia prwton men agnh estin epeita eirhnikh epieikhv eupeiqhv mesth eleouv kai karpwn agaqwn adiakritov kai anupokritov
Conclusion: The only reasonable definition of the word "Anthon" is "From above/ from the source or beginning", There is a perfectly good word for "again" but, neither Nicodemus, nor Jesus use that word, instead Nicodemus uses Deuteron. Nicodemus apparent confusion results from Jesus' use of the word "Born" not "From above" Anothon
Oh you’re not on the sidelines my dear. You are right here proclaiming God’s grace just where He wants you right now.
Documentation to exactly what Jesus said please.
John 3: 1-8
1 There was one of the Pharisees called Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews,
2 who came to Jesus by night and said, 'Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher; for no one could perform the signs that you do unless God were with him.'
3 Jesus answered: In all truth I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.
4 Nicodemus said, 'How can anyone who is already old be born? Is it possible to go back into the womb again and be born?'
5 Jesus replied: In all truth I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born through water and the Spirit;
6 what is born of human nature is human; what is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be surprised when I say: You must be born from above.
8 The wind blows where it pleases; you can hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
Seriously, be carful. There are a number of your fellow protestants that will rip you a new one over this. They are convinced that Jesus died on Wednesday or Thursday.
Much better translation.
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