It’s Biblical to Ask Saints to Pray for Us

Ignitum Today ^ | 15 September 2013 | Matthew Olson

[matthewrobertolson]

(This was originally shared here on AnsweringProtestants.com, as part of a longer post.)

There is nothing wrong with asking the heavenly saints to pray for us.

Many Protestants argue that asking the saints to pray for us is “unbiblical,” while throwing around verses like 1 Timothy 2:5. But they are incorrect.

1 Timothy 2:5 — the infamous “one mediator between God and men” verse — refers to salvation, not prayer. The verse reminds us that it is only because of the graces found through Christ (God Himself) that we are able to have any real relationship with God and reach Heaven. It does not, however, absolutely negate relations with angels or heavenly saints. After all, it was an angel (Gabriel) that spoke to Mary before Christ was conceived in her body, not God Himself.

I was raised in several Protestant denominations. They all placed a major emphasis on Christians praying for each other — which is encouraged in 1 Timothy 2:1-4 and other passages. I would contend that a saint, one who is holy and in Heaven with God, would have a lot more sway with God than a rebellious sinner on earth would.

To put that another way, if someone asked you to do something for them, would you not be more likely to help them if they were your best friend, as opposed to a complete stranger? Of course, you may very well be willing to do something for a complete stranger, but you would probably be more willing to do something for your best friend.

And there is evidence in the Bible of the saints praying to God.

“Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand.” – Revelation 8:3-4

The word for “saints” in that passage comes from the Greek word hagios. Thayer’s New Testament Greek-English Lexicon says that the best definition of hagios is “most holy thing, a saint”. This would seem to undermine the Protestant assertion that “saints” in this context can only refer to people on earth.

Now, what would the saints be praying for? Themselves? Doubtful. They are in Heaven, so they do not need anything, as eternal life with God is perfect. That really only leaves one option: they are praying for us. And because they are praying for us anyway, how could it be wrong to ask them to pray for us about something specific? It is like interacting with a DJ at an event. He’s playing music anyway, so what is the harm in asking him to play your favorite song?

Here’s my Scripture-based defense of the practice that should answer most Protestant objections:

Matthew 17:3-4 & Luke 9:28-31.
Moses and Elijah (who are clearly heavenly saints, not “saints” in the way Paul would sometimes use the word) are with Christ during the Transfiguration.

Revelation 6:9-11.
The martyrs can talk to God.

From those three passages, we can gather that the saints in Heaven interact with God.

Luke 15:10.
The angels and saints (who, in Luke 20:35-36, Christ says are equal to the angels) are aware of earthly events.

1 Timothy 2:1 & James 5:16.
It is good for Christians to pray for one another.

Now, if the saints interact with God and are aware of earthly events (and can therefore hear us), why wouldn’t they pray for us, considering that it is good for Christians (which the angels and saints definitely are) to pray for one another?

Revelation 21:27.
Nothing imperfect will enter into Heaven.

Psalm 66:18 & James 5:16.
God ignores the prayers of the wicked, and the prayers of the righteous are effective.

Because the saints have reached perfection (they are in Heaven), their prayers are more effective than the prayers of those that are less righteous, so that’s why one might ask them to pray instead of asking another Christian on earth or simply doing it themselves.

(All verses are from the NASB translation.)

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[matthewrobertolson]

1. The prayers are through Christ. After all, it is only because of Christ that the heavenly saints are even in Heaven. And, of course, we recognize that it is only because of God’s grace (through Christ) that we are even able to pray to Him (let alone seek the intercession of the saints) in the first place.

2. Revelation 21:27 “determined that saints reached perfection,” not “humans”.

3. The parish that I attend is named after Jesus, actually: Christ the King.

[Bryanw92]

>>“St. Someone” can’t answer your prayers, but can pass them along with a greater degree of righteousness. And as I demonstrated in the post, with God, the prayers of the wicked are ignored and the prayers of the righteous are effective.

Luke 15:10 does not prove “divine omniscience” at all. Its as if there are 30,000 people at a concert and the guy on stage makes an announcement. Then, all 30,000 know it. But if one of the 30,000 makes an announcement, no one hears. The saints are in the crowd.

So, if the “wicked” pray to a saint, then God will answer them. But, if a good person who is not yet perfected prays to God, he will ignore that person? Is there scripture that backs up the idea that saints use a discernment process to decide who’s prayers they pass up the chain of command?

This whole idea just reeks of idolatry.

[matthewrobertolson]

Yep! Exactly.

I’ve noticed you in other threads, and I’d just like to note that you’re a blessing to FreeRepublic. :)

[driftdiver]

“because The Lord never utilizes miracles.”

Sarcasm?

[Amendment10]

With all due respect to Roman Catholics, please consider the following. There's a few passages in the Holy Bible which reasonably indicate, imo, that we are to direct our prayers only to God the Father.

Isaiah 8:19 and 19:3 indicate that consulting the spirits of the dead is a "teaching of man" (my term) which Jesus warned about in general in Mark 7:8.

Also, aside from the transfiguration of Jesus in Matthew 17:2-5 which I don't regard as Jesus asking the spirits of deceased humans for guidance (that's ludicrous), there is no passage in the four gospels which indicate that Jesus prayed to anybody but the Father, corrections welcome.

In fact, Matthew 6:9-13 shows that when Jesus taught his disciples how to pray, Jesus began with, "Our Father."

But also note that Matthew 26:13 indicates that the memory of "saints" (my word) will be honored as evidenced by the woman who poured perfume on Jesus' head. The passage doesn't provide the name of the woman, arguably so that believers wouldn't pray to her.

[driftdiver]

“The passage itself is not “infamous,” but the way Protestants frequently use it (at least in this context) certainly is.”

As opposed to praying to dead people?

[roamer_1]

Wicked= Having to do with the twisting of wicks in candle-making... Used to describe the unlawful twisting of Scripture, and particularly the law.

This article is a perfect example thereof.

[mlizzy]

I would certainly ask a Godly person to pray for me...

Yes, the saints are only intercessors. Just like the Godly person you would ask pray for you. Anything the saints "accomplish" can only be done through the allowance (the power!) of Christ the King, your Dad in heaven. I think Protestants (and other non-Catholic denoms) misinterpret intercessory prayer, because many Catholics (by way of a shortcut), say they are praying to this saint or that. Other Catholics understand they are referring to intercessory prayer. Other denominations usually do not, as they jump all over this "shortcut."

[driftdiver]

So why pray to a Saint (intercessory or not) when a person can pray to Christ the King?

[ealgeone]

that’s about as weak of a reply as i’ve ever seen on FR.

you have a lot of what ifs and it seems in your thought process.

it sounds to me like you’re bringing in Catholic tradition, which a lot of not based on Scripture, to justify your points.

you did not address the main flaw in your post regarding who is and isn’t a saint. if Catholics believe that only certain ones are saints because the church says so, then that’s not Biblical. That’s man.

The Bible defines a saint as a believer in Christ...whether they be on this planet or in Heaven. Do you agree with this definition?

[metmom]

Luke 11:1-13 Now Jesus was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples.” And he said to them, “When you pray, say: “Father, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread, and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.”

And he said to them, “Which of you who has a friend will go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves, for a friend of mine has arrived on a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; and he will answer from within, ‘Do not bother me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I cannot get up and give you anything’? I tell you, though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his impudence he will rise and give him whatever he needs.

And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

[Agamemnon]

I would contend that a saint, one who is holy and in Heaven with God, would have a lot more sway with God than a rebellious sinner on earth would.

Your premise is flawed.

God doesn't play such games or entertain prayerful pissing matches and "one-ups-man-ships." Jesus in fact upbraided his own disciples for doing just that:

"An argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest.... For it is the one who is least among you all who is the greatest." " (Luke 9:46)

Is God only kidding when he inspired James to write:

"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." (James 5:16)?

Read Romans 8:26, 27 again:

"In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God."

The Holy Spirit, Himself is perfectly equipped to intercede for us in ways that no human alive ever could. What makes you think God needs departed saints to remind Him of us when He never leaves us or forsakes us?

"Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said,“Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”" (Hebrews 13:5)(and Deuteronomy 31:6)

Catholics may pray their 5 "Hail Mary's" to get her attention with the belief that if they nag Mary, Mary will nag Jesus, and because she's His mom (in an earthly sense) Jesus will listen to her in ways He wouldn't be inclined to listen to you.

Scripture informs us all very differently.

FReegards!

[Salvation]

Do you understand the process for the canonization of a Catholic Saint? Saint with a capital "S" on it -- not a small "s"???

FYI:

How Many Miracles are Required to Canonize a Saint?
Saints [Catholic, Orthodox, Open]
SAINTHOOD 101: Rules for Becoming a Saint [Catholic Caucus]
The Process of Becoming a Saint (Canonization) [Catholic Caucus]
Pope Lists Criteria for Causes of Canonization

[mlizzy]

So why pray to a Saint (intercessory or not) when a person can pray to Christ the King?

Suppose, for the time being, that all fathers (in families) were the heads of their households. And one such family's little child wanted a puppy. That little child, if his/her father was somewhat firm, might go to their mother, and ask, "Could you please ask dad to allow me to have a puppy?"

Saints were regular people other than the fact they put Christ above all. So they are easier to approach for many people. And since they all led the most spectacularly unique lives (again, all for Jesus!), this draws many asking for favors (of intercession). There have been many miracles attributed to the intercession of saints; some saints are almost ridiculously "popular," but it's always Christ Who allows the miracle... attributed to a saint.

[Truth2012]

Saints are the children of God. Look at the difference this manes:

I am not a sinner saved by grace, I am a saint who sins, who is saved by grace.

[jocon307]

I once had a Jewish friend call me and ask if I thought it was OK if she prayed to St. Anthony for help in finding something she had lost.

I told her I did not see a problem with it. Anthony was a real person, he lived and died and is in heaven, why couldn’t she ask him for help, even as much as she might ask her dead father or grandmother for guidance or comfort or aid.

[Joshua]

“Because the saints have reached perfection (they are in Heaven), their prayers are more effective than the prayers of those that are less righteous

---

1)You reach perfection through faith in Jesus Christ. I stand before God and pray because of the Spirit that dwells inside me, not by my position.

2)Being able to hear the prayers of all those around the world seeking their intercession at one time means they have some attribute of God, omnipresent, omnipotent or omniscient. Show me where scripture teaches this.

The post is a ridiculous attempt to justify a foolish practice.

[CynicalBear]

>> I would contend that a saint, one who is holy and in Heaven with God, would have a lot more sway with God than a rebellious sinner on earth would.<<

He would contend? “More sway”? Where’s scripture proof that God listens to one believer over another?

>> To put that another way, if someone asked you to do something for them, would you not be more likely to help them if they were your best friend, as opposed to a complete stranger? Of course, you may very well be willing to do something for a complete stranger, but you would probably be more willing to do something for your best friend.<<

Could he get any more carnally minded? And he assumes those in heaven have the same biases as people on earth? Does this guy even read scripture?

>> Moses and Elijah (who are clearly heavenly saints, not “saints” in the way Paul would sometimes use the word) are with Christ during the Transfiguration.<<

And God would not let the apostles speak with them.

>> From those three passages, we can gather that the saints in Heaven interact with God.<<

UM..duh!

There is so much wrong with that article it would be to long to continue. Not to mention that all liveing believers are called saints.

[Kirkwood]

We have free will and the saints have free will. We can ask for their prayers and they can pray for us if they choose. I can’t imagine why they would not help us in a time of need if our requests were worthy. At the very least, if it gives us comfort and brings us closer to the Father, it is good.

[driftdiver]

Not sure that answers the question but thanks.