Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
Posted on 08/27/2013 11:53:37 AM PDT by NYer
Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.
Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.
When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:
Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.
I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:
I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”
This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”
“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”
I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.
This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.
So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?
If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.
Godspeed,
Taylor
PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.
PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!
Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people
let's see now, Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus........pretty much right out of my bible.....or is that one of the parts that the protestant revolution left out????
Mormonism or Scientology?
The delusion is breath taking.....
Believers have Jesus and the Holy Spirit interceding for them on their behalf without the believer even having to ask them to do it.
AND they are interceding for believers according to the will of God.
The Hebrew word for bow down and worship are the same.
God clearly sees bowing down as worshiping.
The chutzpah Catholics have to redefine what God has clearly told us is staggering.
And how is that praying? Just what is it petitioning God for?
Bowing down is bowing down. It can be objectively observed.
If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed.
So Catholics worship the eucharist....
And Catholics believe they are eating God.
PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!
So when non-Catholics have a *mega church* it's bad, but when Catholicism is called the *real mega church*, Hey! it's all GOOD!
Hey, it's really all hypocrisy.....
In your initial statement, "God said not to make them to bow down to them.", you put the "to" in the wrong place in the sentence, not where it is found in the Bible, and in all those other Biblical translations of that text you posted!
The Bible says
"You should not make them. You should not bow down to them."
It does NOT say
"You should not make them to bow down to them."
That second version means something completely different than the first (true Biblical) version because of that extra "to" you put in there in the wrong place. You changed its meaning completely.
Yes, but you said that the word "image" could be translated "idol" based on that same link you provided, which also said "bowed down" could also be translated "worship" or "serve" - not necessarily "bow down".
Just using your own logic and links for changing "image" to "idol", it is just as valid to change "bow down" to "worship" or "serve".
Both of those changes are actually shown there at your link you provided.
(In other words, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.)
nope...back to fourth grade and diaqgramming a sentence:
Imperative sentence so the subject is understood as "You"...the predicate or verb is "do" we now have "you do" The object of the sentence is "this" so we now have a complete, imperative sentence "you do this"....the rest of the sentence merely tells you why you are doing this and is totally unnecessary for the sentence to be complete....Christ gave the order...."you do this" and Catholics do.....noone else does.
Essays for Lent: Mary Ever-Virgin
Why is the perpetual virginity of Mary so important to Catholics? [Ecumenical Vanity]
Is the Perpetual Virginity of Mary a Biblical View?
Aeiparthenos (An Anglo-Catholic Priest on Mary's Perpetual Virginity)
The Heõs Hou polemic is over: Radio Debate Matatics VS White & Svendsen on Perpetual Virginity Mary
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Heõs Hou polemic is over: Radio Debate Matatics VS White & Svendsen on Perpetual Virginity Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
metmom, that is EXACTLY what YOU did with the Hebrew word that could mean either "image" and "idol!.
The REAL truth is that "bowing down" does not always mean "worshiping", and "worshiping" does not always mean "bowing down".
Likewise, "image" does not always mean "idol", and "idol" does not always mean "image".
God never said all bowing down is worshipping. (If you disagree, show me a text in the Bible where God says all "bowing down" is worship. (Hint: There is no such text.)
Like everything else, each word must be taken in the context it is given. For example, punching a clock is not the same as punching someone in the nose. And bowing down to worship an idol is NOT the same as bowing down to ask someone to dance with you, or to marry you.
That is the truth.
Have to go now. Goodnight.
Though I am often irritated, frustrated and infuriated with what is said about the Church on these boards, I know that it is their loss and not mine.
What a glorious gift God has given us!
Amen!
Read it...Then read the bible...Now, gettin' back to ya...
Act 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
Act 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
We as Christians are to give reverence to NO man/woman...Your first pope told us that...How can you argue with him??? We are not even to bow to angels...
1Co 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
This includes women...We are not to think of Mary ABOVE THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN...Period...And it even tells you why...
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
I couldn't list the astounding number of prayers to Mary when Catholics promise to serve Mary...
Deu 4:15 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:
Deu 4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
When God revealed himself in the fire, he made sure no one got a look at him...Why??? He tells you...
Isa 44:7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
People seem to forget that Jesus IS God...And he doesn't share...There is no co-redeemer...No co-mediator...
Isa 44:9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
Isa 44:10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?
And this is written in hopes that you will see...
sa 44:15 Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
Isa 44:16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:
Isa 44:17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
And how many prayers have we seen to Mary to ask her for deliverance??? Far too many...
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
We are not to bow down to angels, prophets (Saints), apostles or anyone or their likeness because they are all fellowservants like we are...
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
We are to worship or serve NOT a single created thing...That includes Mary and the Saints...
The terminology is not the issue. Whether the practice is described as "worship" or "veneration," or any other term, the problem is the same. Any time we ascribe something that belongs to God, to someone else, it is idolatry. The Bible nowhere instructs us to revere, pray to, rely on, or "idolize" anyone other than God. We are to worship God alone. Glory, praise, and honor belong to God alone. Only God is worthy to receive glory and honor and power...
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
God alone is worthy to receive our worship, adoration, and praise...
Neh 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
There is no Holy Father Pope...There is no holy pope...There is no holy Mary...There are no holy Saints...There is only ONE who is holy...
<...”Catholics believe they are eating God”....>
That one always floors me....shaking my head and grateful too..that Jesus made things simple and easily understood without all the fluff so often added to make people believe they are significant.
He is truly enough...He said He himself is sufficient for all our needs....I believed Him and He has never let me down, nor required all this hocus pocus magic-ka-boola stuff some think is necessary to feel holy or/and enlightened.
There are many cults and false religions who do “add-ons”.....always designed to make the individual feel they are unique and favored above all .....this keeps them coming back for more....and it keeps the revenues flowing as well.
There is only ‘ONE’ who is holy...
Amen.
I see this as a meaningless, repetitious prayer...There's nothing personal...I believe God gives us the example to make it personal between a person and God...
Luk_18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I'm thinking your religion should change the prayer to this:
Oh my Jesus forgive me my sins, save me from the fires of hell and lead my soul to heaven, especially me, in need of thy mercy. Amen.
You guys may not consider that to be a significant change but I am convinced that it makes all the difference in the world to God...
Some Obama fanatics have told me the same thing. Seriously.
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