Posted on 08/05/2013 10:31:02 AM PDT by Gamecock
Question:
Does the OPC use the crucifix in the church? If not, are they opposed to it?
Answer:
Thank you for your question. The answer is, so far as I know, the crucifix is not used in OPC churches, and here is why:
1.The Second Commandment (Ex. 20:4-6 and Deut. 5:8-10) forbids any picture or image of God, and that would include the Son of God, even as man. At any rate we do not know what Jesus looked like as there is no physical description of him.
2.The crucifix will always end up being an object of worshipregarded as holy. History teaches as much. The bronze serpent Moses made became an object of worship and was not destroyed till King Hezekiah did it (Numbers 21:9; 2 Kings 18:1-5). Roman Catholics have worshipped it, kissed it and held it to have mystical powers.
3.Christ did not remain on the Cross. In the Roman Church Christ is said to be resacrificed each time the Mass is celebrated. This is heresy; he died once for allHebrews 9:25-28.
We in the OPC have learned not to trust our idolatry prone hearts not to do the same as others have in the past. Hence, no crucifixes are used. So, yes, we are opposed to it.
It's almost 8 o'clock in the MORNING here in the Philippines. I just talked with my daughter in NC as she was putting the baby to bed! That 12 hour time shift keeps me out of many "current" conversations!
...view from my back porch!
Well, I hope to see everybody there. Lord Jesus, Who works wonders --- I hope He works wonders for you and yours! N'Night now, editor-surveyor.
If Jesus makes wine for people to celebrate, it is certainly a gift from God.
Deuteronomy 14:26 And spend the money for whatever you desireoxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.
So please tell me how strong drink is really ice tea with a bit more caffeine.
Oh??
That somehow makes it RIGHT?
THIS 'belief' is recorded in Scripture:
ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD.
Houston: we have a problem.
and yet...
9 Once when they had finished eating and drinking in Shiloh, Hannah stood up. Now Eli the priest was sitting on his chair by the doorpost of the Lords house. 10 In her deep anguish Hannah prayed to the Lord, weeping bitterly. 11 And she made a vow, saying, Lord Almighty, if you will only look on your servants misery and remember me, and not forget your servant but give her a son, then I will give him to the Lord for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head.
12 As she kept on praying to the Lord, Eli observed her mouth. 13 Hannah was praying in her heart, and her lips were moving but her voice was not heard. Eli thought she was drunk 14 and said to her, How long are you going to stay drunk? Put away your wine.
15 Not so, my lord, Hannah replied, I am a woman who is deeply troubled. I have not been drinking wine or beer; I was pouring out my soul to the Lord.
Titus 2:3
The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
If it's 'grape juice'; I doubt that the old ladies would be WARNED about it!
Some people do not find the truth to be so obvious.
AHhhh...
The GOOD stuff!
Nice view!
Hope there’s no nasty SNAKES in the grass!
You’ve never seen my mom around grape juice.
Seriously, until Welch invented a way to keep grape juice from turning into wine and then peddled it to the pietists, this wasn’t an issue.
Well; iff'n you wuz a MORMON; then you'd find OTHER uses for 'strong drink'!
Verse #7
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I’ve seen MY mom around beer.
Not a pretty sight at all.
OK, tell of the method by which you can say authoritatively that the wine made by Jesus at Cana was fermented wine.
In fact, it would be interesting to know how you have discerned that ant of the wine consumed at Cana was alcoholic wine.
Please do so?
Irrelevant to the Cana discussion.
Where?
Plain sense of the text?
I suppose you would have the guests praising the quality of thr grape juice? “Jesus, this is some mighty fine grape juice!”
Irrelevant to wine, and irrelevant to the Cana episode.
Authority? Josephus? or what?
And about the side wound from being stabbed to assure He was dead? There was an incision, and both blood as well as fluid from the pericardium flowed out, excessively. His heart was greatly enlarged from the torture, IIRC from doctors' estimation. No chance naturally then to get the heart back into pumping condition ...
I already said, in response to you I believe, that the qualities of the word is context-related. Whoever said that Lot wasn't aware of the power of the wine he was drinking.
And, of course, as a separate issue, what was it that made Lot righteous, considering his lifestyle and preferences? An interesting quest.
i knew if i read BB long enough, she would write something that she and i can agree, well that day has come!!
kill the fatted calf, this day calls for celebration.
here is what she wrote:
And, let us not leave out the very critical point that gets missed frequently...the early church “fathers” did not speak infallibly, they were not divinely inspired when they wrote their letters and, if what they wrote contradicts Holy Scripture, it is Scripture which holds preeminence.
now, under her own test, let’s see if Ignatius’s statement that the gnostics abstain from the Eucharist because they did not believe it was the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ “contradicts” Holy Scripture:
Matthew 26:26 now as they were eating, Jesus took bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to his disciples and said, “take, eat; this is my body”
Ignatius said it was his flesh, Jesus said it was his body. contradiction? i don’t think so.
next up, St Paul’s first letter to the Church at Corinth:
10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?
so Paul calls the Eucharist the body of Christ, but is this a contradiction to Ignatius referring to the flesh of Christ? clearly not.
BTW- the two questions posed by Paul in 10:16 would be answered YES by Paul, Ignatius, Justin Martyr, Cyprian, Irenaeus, Cyril, Ambrose, Jerome, Augustine, Thomas and every other member of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
now, the gnostics would answer these 10:16 question NO, the Eucharist is just bread.
so the question i have for BB is - when Holy Scripture contradicts the gnostics and certain 16th century reformers, which holds preeminence?
i have spent the last two days reading what i could about the charge that the 7 epistles of Ignatius were fake.
i must say the case is very weak. for these to be fake, then the writings of Polycarp and Ireneus, both 2nd century writings, would also need to be fake.
in addition, writing in the late 3rd century accepted them as genuine, as did the whole Church before the so called Reformation.
what is never explained by those making the forgery claims are:
who forged them?
why did they forge them?
don’t forget, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist was believed by everyone in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, it was not a doctrine in dispute. surely the “forger” had no idea in 1,300-1,400 years men like Calvin would come along and revive the gnostic heresy denying the Eucharist is the Body of Christ!!
so there would be no motive of anyone to “forge” Ignatius’s name on 7 letters.
the same can not be said of those making the forgery claim. they at least realize, that if the letters are not fake, then their doctrines are false. powerful motive to claim forgery.
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