Does The Orthodox Presbyterian Church use the Crucifix?

The Orthodox Presbyterian Church ^

[Gamecock]

Question:

Does the OPC use the crucifix in the church? If not, are they opposed to it?

Answer:

Thank you for your question. The answer is, so far as I know, the crucifix is not used in OPC churches, and here is why:

1.The Second Commandment (Ex. 20:4-6 and Deut. 5:8-10) forbids any picture or image of God, and that would include the Son of God, even as man. At any rate we do not know what Jesus looked like as there is no physical description of him.

2.The crucifix will always end up being an object of worship—regarded as holy. History teaches as much. The bronze serpent Moses made became an object of worship and was not destroyed till King Hezekiah did it (Numbers 21:9; 2 Kings 18:1-5). Roman Catholics have worshipped it, kissed it and held it to have mystical powers.

3.Christ did not remain on the Cross. In the Roman Church Christ is said to be resacrificed each time the Mass is celebrated. This is heresy; he died once for all—Hebrews 9:25-28.

We in the OPC have learned not to trust our idolatry prone hearts not to do the same as others have in the past. Hence, no crucifixes are used. So, yes, we are opposed to it.

[boatbums]

No, I understand fully what you were saying and I agree that the "symbol" of the cross is not to be worshiped or bowed down to and neither should we do so with pictures, statues or any other objects. Our human inclinations always seem to need something tangible to grasp onto. All we need to do today is look around at the rock stars and celebrities wearing all sorts of crosses to know that its symbolism is totally lost to them.

I recall that the Christians in the first century during times of persecution, would recognize each other by drawing the sign of the fish (Ichthys) - one stroking the top outline, the other the bottom outline. It was symbolic of being "fishers of men".

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys:

ΙΧΘΥΣ (Ichthys) is an acronym for "Ίησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ", (IÄ“sous Christos, Theou Yios, SōtÄ“r), which translates into English as "Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior".

Historians say the 20th-century use of the ichthys motif is an adaptation based on an Early Christian symbol which included a small cross for the eye or the Greek letters "ΙΧΘΥΣ".

According to tradition, ancient Christians, during their persecution by the Roman Empire in the first few centuries after Christ, used the fish symbol to mark meeting places and tombs, or to distinguish friends from foes:

…when a Christian met a stranger in the road, the Christian sometimes drew one arc of the simple fish outline in the dirt. If the stranger drew the other arc, both believers knew they were in good company. Current bumper-sticker and business-card uses of the fish hark back to this practice. The symbol is still used today to show that the bearer is a practicing Christian. —Christianity Today, Elesha Coffman, "Ask the Editors"

Of course, there are also stories that the sign of the fish was used in ancient pagan or pre-Christian religious societies. The same can be said of the cross (the "T" or "t") form used today and it IS true that we don't really know for sure the actual shape of the "torture device" that our Savior was hung upon. I've heard it asked if Jesus died in an electric chair, would we have electric chair medals hanging around our throats or on the walls of our churches? Maybe some would. The hymn, The Old Rugged Cross, certainly is a touching and worshipful remembrance of what our Savior endured to redeem us. As you noted about Paul speaking of the cross meaning the message of the gospel and not specifically the cross, is valid. I will still love that old hymn anyway.

We MUST always adore and worship the one to whom ALL glory and honor and praise is due - the Lord Jesus Christ. God bless you, friend.

[imardmd1]

... all the Bible students here know the Bible does not contain any verse that says Jesus ate the Eucharist, nor that He drank His blood.

Neither does the Bible say that He did not, IIRC.

And what did He give those fools (His uncle and aunt?), slow of heart to believe all that the prophets had spoke, at table the same day of resurrection in Emmaus? (Lk. 24:25,30) Was it ... Him?

And also, Jn. 21:13, what of that? Lk 24:42-43; did He eat?

These contain facts, which we may learn about, later --

[imardmd1]

Anytime someone adds to the finished work of Christ things that they MUST do to either merit or keep salvation, then we can know that is NOT the true gospel.

These are technically called "works of supererogation" which are widespread in and fully promoted by certain sects of Christendom.

That is one of four clear marks of a false religion. Three others are: seeking after God, a second chance after death, and earning one's way to (Heaven)(Nirvana)(Paradise)(etc. rewards after death).

[verga]

We don't have a clue but you do, right??? And you're going to keep it a secret...

Sadly I don't believe that either of you has the intellectual acumen to understand it. If you are actually interested, I strongly recommend Frank Sheed's "Theology and Sanity" or maybe his "Theology for beginners" might be more your speed.

[verga]

That was written at least 250 years after Ignatius died and your religion stuck Ignatius' name on it...

Still waiting on your documentation on this. Of course we know that you have none or you would have posted it already. Do you folks have that commandment against bearing false witness in your Bible?

[Not gonna take it anymore]

See how Catholics proclaim we are saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating his flesh and drinking his blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By keeping the commandments (Matt 19:17)

By our words (Matt 12:37)

By enduring to the end (Matt.24:13)

[metmom]

See how God tells us how to be saved.

Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Catholicism makes salvation way too complicated. Too many hoops to jump through, and even with all that, I've yet to meet a Catholic who is sure of going to heaven and they continually tell us that they'll find out when they get there.

[metmom]

ping to post 207

[Elsie]

Catholicism makes salvation way too complicated.

No!

You have GOT to be kidding!

---

 

John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

---

1 John 3:21-24

Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

[Elsie]

Does The Orthodox Presbyterian Church use the Crucifix?

USE?

Whatever does this MEAN?

[Elsie]

Protestants bearing false witness against Catholics?? How can that be?? /s

Learning from the best?

---

Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.^[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.^[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.^[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony^[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

[Elsie]

It absolutely IS the real Body and Blood of Christ, under the forms of Bread and Wine.

When most of this body and blood gets passed out; what then happens to the LEFTOVERS?

[Elsie]

...and fight the Reformation all over again!

Well; at LEAST the RCC then created it's own COUNTER-reformation.

(Must have been to correct a problem that didn't exist.)

[Elsie]

...and take up their cross...

It's hard to 'take it up' without clinging to it!

---

"I will cling to the old rugged cross, ..."

[Elsie]

Dare I ask if you have a stake in that argument?

---

 

If you have cable TV, there won’t be much on to watch.

 

 

 

 

If there isn’t much on to watch, you will answer your door whenever someone rings.

 

 

 

 

If you open your door, you will see mormons.

 

 

 

 

If you talk to mormons, they will trick you into “praying about whether something is true”.

 

 

 

 

If you rely on your feelings, you may become a mormon.

 

 

 

 

If you become a mormon, you will have to wear magic underwear!

 

 

 

 

If you wear magic underwear, people will immediately label you as a cultist.

DON’T be a cultist!
Get DirectTV.

[Elsie]

Cereal Boy...

You're slipping!

[Elsie]

... all the Bible students here know the Bible does not contain any verse that says Jesus ate the Eucharist, nor that He drank His blood.

True; but we ALSO know that absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.

---

I wonder if Jesus of Nazareth EVER ate the Passover meal before this time...

The bible doesn't say so.

[Elsie]

For all of historical Christendom - the Body and Blood of Our Lord has been a central mystery.

For most of Historical Judaism, the Passover meal WAS known for what it was: a REMEMBERANCE of GOD's saving power.

When Jesus announced that the bread and wine represented HIM - then no WONDER that folks, at that time, said it was a 'hard teaching'.

[Elsie]

Whose got a 3.5 inch floppy drive anymore?

Well; I've GOT one; but it is an accessory with a USB connector on it!

[bmontang]

I read the bible daily. The Catholic church is a more biblical church (from reading the bible standpoint than protestants.

A good portion of the Mass is centered on readings form the bible. Readings that are scheduled by the liturgical year and not what the pastor “feels” like preaching on.

Read John Chapter 6: 42-71 Especially the passage where it states “As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.” If no one left why does the bible say they did?