Posted on 07/20/2013 1:45:48 PM PDT by NYer
Correction: abstain from food from midnight, abstain from sex for three days.
You seem to lack some basic theological understanding. Belief in the holy trinity is a central core belief of all mainstream Christian denominations, AND accordingly it is a major belief in the Catholic faith.
Since the definition of the holy trinity that God is THREE persons -- Father, Son, AND Holy Spirit -- as ONE God, any Catholic priest who is called to serve God would, by definition, be serving God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit simultaneously.
Mormons and Muslims do NOT believe in the holy trinity. Mormons believe, erroneously, that God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are "three separate Gods", rather than the SAME one true God. Muslims believe, erroneously, that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are NOT God, and reject the idea of a trinity entirely. Thus, a Mormon or a Muslim who says they are "called to serve God" would NOT be doing the same thing as a Catholic who is "called to serve God", and neither the Mormon or Muslim person would necessarily be "serving Jesus" when they are "called by God". Their concept of Jesus and how he relates to God is entirety different than how God and Jesus are defined in Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox Christianity.
You're reading some different Bible then -- mine says we're all one in Christ, not that we're all equal. Ananias and Sapphira weren't equal to Peter when they died for lying to him, and the various people Paul condemns in different places weren't equal to him, and when Hebrews 13 talks about obeying those placed in authority in the church, it's not talking about a relationship between equals.
Heaven is a monarchy, not a republic.
But just between you and me, I think we Catholics know what our ordinations mean, and don't need either you or a reporter to tell us, in any case.
Have you ever actually been to a Catholic ordination? I'm pretty sure you haven't. I have. I think I and other Catholics are better authorities on the ceremonies of our faith than you are.
We consider marriage to be a holy sacrament. The Reformers demoted it to a mere civil contract. Who do you think holds marriage in higher regard?
Personally, I don’t care one iota about your Ordinances. I only care about the living, breathing God and not man-made rituals - whether it be a Catholic church or Protestant one. There isn’t one “true” church - only the body of believers whichever denomination they are in.
So, you keep your ordinances and rituals and I’ll keep my personal relationship with Jesus. Do you think God is impressed with your ceremonies? I doubt that.
And, I’m also sure He isn’t impressed with those who prostrate themselves in front of a mere mortal man. That type of worship is preserved for God and God only. And, whether you like it or not - it does denote worship.
You are equating the sins by those you mentioned as not being equal. Each of those who sinned had an equal place until they chose to ain. Judas was equal to the other apostles until he chose to betray Christ. Then he lost his place. Jesus died for all - not just a few special people.
You do err in some of your conceptions, so you believe your man-made teachings and ordinances, and I’ll continue to believe the Word of God. Every believer born again is called to minister. Minister simply means to serve. It is God who chooses the calling upon an individual.
The five-fold ministry is given to equip the saints. Yes, all believers are called saints - not just a few who are canonized by a church.
I never said heaven was a republic - don’t put words in my mouth.
But the Bible says he had a mother-in-law!!!
Anyway, the fact of the matter is requiring priests to be celibate is a *discipline* of the Catholic Church. It is not doctrine. Since it is a discipline, it *can* change.
However, to change it because of the shortage of priests is ridiculous. The reasons why there is a shortage of priests go much deeper than the fact that they can't marry. There were plenty of times in Church history (*cough* pre-Vatican II *cough*) where there were plenty of priests despite the fact that they could not marry.
Pedophiles are almost always married men (ex: Jerry Sandusky). A married priesthood doesn’t mean there won’t be scandals involving children.
And yet you encourage those in authority to reject marriage for themselves. Your denomination’s doctrines are confused; why else would it deny marriage for your leaders? Jesus’ friend Peter was married.
Does Scripture speak highly of marriage, or lowly of marriage? Sounds like you have little regard for marriage.
Because Jesus and St. Paul encouraged it?
"For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others--and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." -Jesus
"To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion" --St. Paul
Do you have a citation for your assertion that, “Pedophiles are almost always married men...”?
In 10 minutes of googling, the only hard statistic I came up with on the question of the marital status of molesters is that 44% of convicted molesters either are or have been married.
http://theweek.com/article/index/221730/pedophilia-a-guide-to-the-disorder
It does say that the vast majority of molesters have or have had sexual relationships with adults, but that's wildly different from saying that the vast majority of molesters are married men.
Other sources either don't give a precise statistic for this category (currently or formerly married men), or lump it in with other categories, or deal with the question so sloppily as to deserve to be ignored.
sitetest
Well, you would if you wanted to be not ignorant and wanted to avoid making stupid comments. Let’s see what you choose. I think I already know.
You make several misleading or mistaken points in your statement: “And yet you encourage those in authority to reject marriage for themselves. Your denomination’s doctrines are confused; why else would it deny marriage for your leaders? Jesus’ friend Peter was married.”
Mistake: “Your denomination’s doctrines are confused;”
Reality: None of this is doctrine. It is a discipline. You apparently aren’t even aware of that.
misleading: “why else would it deny marriage for your leaders?”
Why wouldn’t the Church insist on celibacy for bishops when that was universally done since the early centuries of the Church?
Misleading: “Jesus’ friend Peter was married.”
At one time. We know about his mother-in-law. There is no evidence his wife was still alive at that point. She might have been, but it is irrelevant. Jesus and Paul were unmarried. Later the Church had - universally - no married bishops whatsoever.
Actually last night I wanted to amend my comment that “God does not care” about whether one prostrates before a bishop or not. That was not my real meaning. Here is what I meant:
There are many ways to sincerely express humility and surrender to God, and I have no doubt that He accepts and is pleased by any sincere expression.
Just as a good father in this world is pleased by any sincere attempt by his children to please and serve him, in love. A grown son with a good job might give his father an expensive watch as a gift, and the toddler may pick a handful of wildflowers (complete with roots and a bit of dirt) and both gifts will please the father’s heart, when offered with love.
Is a good father in this world pleased when two of his sons argue and fight and say the other son’s gift is no good? Or if one son tells the other son that he should not offer his gift to their father? Or if one son tells the other - “I’m his favorite son and you’re not because you don’t do things for him my way”? Even a loving and wise (albeit imperfect) father in this world is very unhappy when sons and daughters argue about such things in this world.
How much more so is the Supreme Father displeased when those who believe in Him criticize another believer for worshiping slightly differently than they do.
I’m far from a Bible scholar, but did not Jesus say “In my Father’s house there are many mansions”?
Thank you, lj. Sometimes I wish we could all let the verbal weapons drop, and just go to Our Father and say “We love You. We want so much to do the right thing. We’ll try to be good from now on, Dad!! Thy will be done.”
I know He is pleased by sincere effort, motivated by love. I don’t know much, but I know that.
The story of the Prodigal Son is my very favorite. Show His unconditional love even for the fallen. Gives me such wonderful firm hope and conviction that all will be well, because His love is more powerful than anything.
Welcome home, Father. We are glad you are with us.
You should know, before you do any more responding to me, that I don’t read a word you write any more. I’ve come to understand that you are not worth my time.
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