Posted on 06/21/2013 2:44:12 PM PDT by NYer
Language evolves over the course of time, with the exception of "dead" languages. For example, the Lebanese speak "lebanese" at home but learn Arabic which is the official language of their country. It's quite fascinating. When two individuals converse in "lebanese" they interject English or French words for the ones, like "ticket" or "computer" that do not exist. I encountered a similar situation while working for Air France. All correspondence exchanged with HQ had to be written in French. As automation evolved rapidly in the US, with no word for "tape drive", etc. we would insert the English word. It did not take long before the government agency that controls language, issued a document with the new French translations. "Tape drive" became "bande magnetique". One of my French coworkers visited Canada and explained that the "french" spoken at home, is what was spoken in France in the 16th century.
Latin, Koine Greek, Aramaic and many other languages are defunct. There are still a few villages in the Middle East where Aramaic is still spoken but ... other words must be substituted for those that are missing.
See my post #41.
So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that Jesus spoke with a Drawl. So He actually said "Give us this day our daily bread Y'all."
Look at this in the context of the manna in the wilderness. The Hebrews were commanded to collect only enough for that day, except, prior to the Sabbath, they were to collect two days worth. Exodus 16:1-30
More than a few villages... about 2.5 million people.
“So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that Jesus spoke with a Drawl. So He actually said “Give us this day our daily bread Y’all.””
I don’t know if He had a drawl, but He and the Apostles had a recognizable accent: Matthew 26:73
Seeing that some suppose that it is meant that we should pray for material bread, their erroneous opinion deserves to be done away with and the truth about the needful bread set forth, in the following manner. We may put the question to them—how can it be that He, who says that heavenly and great things ought to be asked for as if, on their view, He has forgotten His teaching now enjoins the offering of intercession to the Father for an earthly and little thing, since neither is the bread which is assimilated into our flesh a heavenly thing nor is it asking a great thing to request it?For my part I shall follow the Teacher's own teaching as to the bread and cite the passages in detail. To men who have come to Capernaum to seek Him He says, in the Gospel according to John, Verily, verily, I tell you you seek me not because you saw signs but because you ate of the loaves of bread and were filled . . . for he that has eaten and been filled with the loaves of bread which have been blessed by Jesus seeks the more to grasp the Son of God more closely and hastens toward Him.
Wherefore He will enjoin: Work not for the food that perishes but for the food that abides unto life eternal which the Son of Man shall give you. And when, upon that, they who had heard inquired and said: What are we to do that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them: This is the work of God that you believe on him whom He has sent. As it is written in Psalms, God sent His Word and healed them, that is the diseased, and believers in that Word work the works of God which are food that abides unto life eternal.
And my Father, He says, gives you the true bread from heaven, for the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. It is true bread that nourishes the true man who is made in God's image, and he that has been nourished by it also becomes in the Creator's likeness. What is more nourishing to the soul than Word, or what more precious to the mind of him that is capable of receiving it than the Wisdom of God? What is more congenial to the rational nature than Truth? Should it be urged in objection to this view that He would not in that case teach men to ask for needful bread as if something other than Himself, it is to be noted that He also discourses in the Gospel according to John sometimes as if it were other than Himself but at other times as if He is Himself the Bread. The former in the sense of the words: Moses hath given you the bread from heaven yet not the true bread, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. In the latter sense, to those who had said to Him Ever give us this bread, He says: I am the bread of life: he that comes unto me shall not hunger, and he that believes on me shall not thirst; and shortly after: I am the living bread that is come down from heaven: if anyone eat of this bread he shall live unto eternity: yea and the bread which I shall give is my flesh which I shall give for the sake of the life of the world.
Now since all manner of nourishment is spoken of as bread according to Scripture as is clear from the fact that it is recorded of Moses that he ate not bread and drank not water forty days, and since the nourishing Word is manifold and various, not all being capable of nourishment by the solidity and strength of the divine teachings, He is therefore pleased to offer strenuous nourishment befitting men more perfect, where He says:
The bread which I shall give is my flesh which I shall give for the sake of the life of the world: and shortly after: Except you eat the flesh of the son of Man and drinks His blood, you have not life in yourselves. He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood hath life eternal, and I will raise him up in the last day. for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him.As the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also he that eats me—he too shall live because of me. This is the true food, Christ's flesh, which being Word has become flesh, as it is said And the Word became flesh. When we eat and drink the Word He tabernacles in us.
(Origen, On Prayer)
Get n answer?
Look at this in the context of the manna in the wilderness. The Hebrews were commanded to collect only enough for that day, except, prior to the Sabbath, they were to collect two days worth. Exodus 16:1-30
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The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Four: Lord, Teach Us To Pray, Third Petition: “Thy Will Be Done on Earth as It Is in Heaven"
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Four: Lord, Teach Us To Pray, Fourth Petition: “Give Us This Day Our Daily Bread"
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we humans have something no other life on earth ahs, a spirit. For that spirit to be alive we must have spirit life in our human spirit. But God has shown us that oonly by the cleansing of the Mercy Seat can our human spirit have THE Life in our human spirit. That Life is 'epiousion' dependent, and only through The Bread Of Life, Jesus, can we have that supersubstrantial life influx, by faithing in our daily walk, relying upon His life in us, the hope of Glory. [Like an Andy Rooney aside, I like using 'faith' as an action word, 'to faithe'. Now, if we can just get it straighten what the 'being born of water and of the Spirit' means ...]
That's gold, knarf. Gold! Can I use that?
I thought so too for 46 years until now because it never made sense in context because all other parts of the prayer are spiritual. So, I would think that being the first prayer request after praising God for who He is, and acknowledging or submitting to His will (I tend to read literally)...
“Now epi means over, above, beyond, in addition to, or some similar superlative. Ousious refers to the substance of something. Hence, to put these words together we have something amounting to supersubstantial, or super-essential.”
How about, as the things of God are higher than ours, and we should pray continuously, meditate on Him throughout the day, instead of physical life essentials, we ask for our spiritual life essentials. We can’t ask for things from God, according to James, unless conditions are met first, so we then ask for forgiveness, and the following parts of the prayer.
I finally feel at peace with this. I always felt uneasy or conflicted or just, the hair stood up on the back of my neck, when saying the prayer and asking for bread when I know He promises to take care of our needs if we follow His will.
I've often observed that when people are overwhelmed with pain and suffering, they find it very easy to fall to their knees and beg God not to give them any more than they can handle. Yet, during fat, happy and prosperous times, precious few people turn to God with the same prayer, even though, unbridled wealth and success are potentially greater dangers to the soul.
If one thinks of food as fuel, it also takes on the character of a commitment on the part of the supplicant. If I plan on expending a lot of physical, emotional and spiritual energy, (i.e. doing good works) I will need additional sustenance and nourishment; if I plan on sitting idle, I will need far less. Again, we ask for what is needed for us to accomplish what we must; no more, no less.
ἐπιούσιον = supersubstantial = Holy Eucharist
hen He was among us, it was still part of the Old testament - maybe a reference to how God took care of those wandering the desert by sending manna each morning to take care of them? With references to how birds don't save up food, but God provides even for them, it may merely be a way to tell us to be grounded in today and keep focused on Him.
Tomorrow ... I’ll pin him down after mass.
Insight....Wisdom ?
Jesus is the bread of Life.
And while I don’t agree that it means eucharist as a non-Cathoic, I do think that it can easily mean to give us this day our daily infilling of Christ and give us our spiritual strength for the day.
Or it could be to give us our daily insight into God’s word, that God would reveal something new about Himself through His word every day. Give us this day a new revelation of Christ.
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