Posted on 06/07/2013 2:33:44 PM PDT by NYer
To understand the Scripture, it’s good to understand the words, their meanings and contest, and especially the epistemology used in Scripture.
The believer is trichotomous in anthropology, having body, soul, and spirit.
The soul is comprised of its mind and its heart.
The mind is our thinking process where we take in the Word of God. After is is processed with positive volition and humility, remaining in fellowship with God, it is used by God the Holy Spirit to sanctify our soul, manifest by the output chamber of our soul, our heart.
Upon initial salvation, we are reborn with a regenerated human spirit, discernible from our soul. Our soul, is still scarred from our past thinking and from our old sin nature.
The new man, with the new human spirit, is able to receive the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit, who makes the intake of His Word efficacious for His Work in sanctifying us.
Even upon initial salvation, our soul and heart is still scarred from when we were unbelievers. Our new spirit, with the work of of the Holy Spirit, is where He is able to begin regenerating us and sanctifying us.
As we learn Bible doctrine, faith in our soul, we are then tested. As we persevere in our testing through faith in Christ, that new thinking in our soul, which has been sanctified by God the Holy Spirit, now cleanses our heart, and slowly completes more and more sanctification of our soul.
Inviting Christ into our soul is like a barker inviting Christ into a stripper’s lounge. C’MON IN!, WE WANT YOU IN HERE! Only problem is that it is still a corrupt environment. It first has to be cleansed by God the Holy Spirit and what He provides.
Once it is cleansed, then yes, Christ, also dwells in us.
“Until there are... All seek not until they do.”
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
There’s no “none seek until they do.” That’s just nonsensical. Why bother writing that “none seek” at all, if they seek “when they do”?
Until God quickens a man and reveals Jesus Christ to Him, He cannot believe or even understand anything to do with the Gospel.
1Co_12:3 ... no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Mat 16:16-17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. (17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
There’s no “not seeking until they decide to seek.” There’s no “he doesn’t know anything until he knows it.” It is simply, “flesh and blood” cannot know it until the Father gives it.
“Yes. His will is done. My meaning is that He has not forced our will to change. Nothing in these passage indicates that.”
Who says he forces our will? But it’s certainly true that God gives us a new heart, and by consequence a new will that DOES come to Christ, infallibly. No one that God moves can remain unmoved.
Jer_24:7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.
Eze 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. (27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
How can God ‘cause us to walk in [His[ statutes” and “keep His judgments” if you are willing and running of yourself to do it?
“Those who are disobedient and remain unrepentant do so of their own volition and are thus responsible for their judgment.”
Of course! And none can come to God unless it is given to them:
Joh 6:64-65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (65) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
It doesn’t say that the Jews received it and rejected it. They simply didn’t receive it at all, and that is why they did not believe. Your position only works if everyone has it revealed to them that Jesus is the Christ. But, this simply isn’t the case in the scripture.
“God did not say He hated Esua before he and Jacob were born.”
God says He chose Jacob before the two were born, before either had done good or evil, for it is not of him that “runneth” or him that “willeth,” but God who shows mercy:
Rom 9:11-18 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) (12) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. (13) As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (14) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. (15) For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. (16) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. (17) For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. (18) Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
“Does God not love the world? “
God loves the world, but He prays only for those He elects out of the world.
Joh 17:6-10 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. (7) Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. (8) For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. (9) I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. (10) And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
“I pray NOT for the world, but for them which thou hast given me.”
“It is also clear that Christ used figures of speech for emphasis.”
There’s no figure of speech that can get you out of this mess.
Natural Law: “Well, Theresa,”
Verga: “love your sweet whisperings.”
Well this just got creepy. I thought the Catholic church taught that homosexuality is a sin? I better not let either one of you get behind me.
YACVPT?
I have not idea what that means.
and we have no idea what that means 8-)
Protestant priestesses.
Of one Accord?
The problem, or perhaps difference, is that Calvinists seem to be of the persuasion that man cannot choose until and unless he is born again first. But that precludes choosing, which God commands clearly in Scripture.
I think that God is more than capable of clearing the fog, as it were, and opening the heart and mind of an individual when presented with the truth, and giving that person the chance to choose before being born again. When that person chooses, responds to God, then he is born again.
God commands all men everywhere to repent and it is His will that all come to salvation. If His will is indeed irresistible, then all men would be saved since He clearly states in Scripture that that is His will.
Obviously not all men are saved. But to try to explain that away with the idea that God makes some men fit for destruction only does not fit with a God of love and mercy nor can one reconcile a God who would command men to do something He made them incapable of and still hold them responsible for it.
Technically, they’re correct. Protestants do have Priests and Priestesses, insomuch that every believer is, in fact, a Priest and a King in the sight of God.
1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Rev_1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Of course, this isn’t actually what they had in mind when they said it though.
Yeah me too! LOL Howd that t get in there?
“But that precludes choosing, which God commands clearly in Scripture.”
This is a false assumption. Calvinists don’t believe there is no actual believing or choosing going on. We just assert that it is God who gives it to us to believe.
Jer_24:7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.
Eze 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. (27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
“If His will is indeed irresistible, then all men would be saved since He clearly states in Scripture that that is His will.”
But the fact is that not everyone actually receives it from the Father to believe.
Joh 6:64-65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (65) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
I’ve used this example a number of times, though if you notice that constantly in Christ’s dealings with those who do not believe, His response isn’t “I revealed the truth to you and you rejected it.” He constantly asserts that they do not believe, because it is impossible for anyone to believe unless the Father gives it. The Lord does indeed offer and reason with unbelievers everyday... yet He is found among those who “did not seek me.”
Only those whom the Father has given to the Son can come to Him, and none who belong to the Son can fail to come.
True, but they’re just looking for something to use against Protestants.
I find it incredibly ironic that they are constantly bringing up the flaws of others clergy and condemning them for ordaining women and homosexuals when homosexuality is such a problem in their OWN priesthood.
They sure don’t seem to have a problem ordaining homosexuals themselves (don’t ask, don’t tell) and when their priests are caught in vile immorality of some of the worst kind, all we hear is that nobody is perfect, we all have out sins, once a priest, always a priest, and they can still fulfill the duties of a priest if their *intent* is “right”.
Most Catholics excuse in their own church what they condemn in others.
Hypocrisy abounds........
No, most of them drive old Volvos with rainbow and Obama-Biden bumper stickers.
Many, in fact most Protestants are fine and decent Christians. It is the fringe and those too embarrassed to disclose their denominations that we must suspect. Those who refuse to grant the benefit of the doubt to Catholics and Catholic clergy do not deserve reciprocity.
If we call Catholic priests father, do you call Protestant priestesses Mother or "Mom"?
While it is true that no one seeks after God and no one can come to Him unless God draws him, I don't see where, in this passage, it says that if God draws someone, it will guarantee their choosing Him.
God desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4) and commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). He even has us living in the exact time and place we are in order that we should seek Him (Acts 17:27)
If it's so God's will that all men be saved, then Calvinists have the problem of explaining away why they aren't and so far, I haven't heard any reasonable explanation of why they aren't.
You’d have to ask someone who has a priestess and for all the different denominations I have attended over the years, I have yet to meet one.
Greetings_Puny_Humans wrote:
This is a false assumption. Calvinists don’t believe there is no actual believing or choosing going on. We just assert that it is God who gives it to us to believe.
But the fact is that not everyone actually receives it from the Father to believe.
Only those whom the Father has given to the Son can come to Him, and none who belong to the Son can fail to come.
Sounds like ol’ Dr E has returned! Another OPC Calvinist amongst us, right?
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