Posted on 05/19/2013 12:21:32 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
Edited on 05/25/2013 2:44:13 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
"Where were You, God?" The question arises daily as news of tragedies abound, and even from time to time as the tragedy involves ourselves. Servicemen die in a bungled military defense operation that should have been a cake walk, and no government official has credible answers. A son is shot dead in his prime by a wanton criminal. A wife dies decades too soon from a deadly disease. A busy mother dies unexpectedly from a sudden heart attack. Maybe you were emotionally abused when a child and have been saddled with a destructive habit that you acquired in an effort to escape from the torment by the only means you knew, and prayer -- once you realized you were in a trap -- seemed scant help or comfort. In these myriad situations the bitter questions often arise: "Oh Lord, where were You? Dear God, why did You roll over for this? Almighty Father, I've always heard that you are righteous and omnipotent, so why did You not act when it would have been so simple for You to stop it from happening? Oh, the heart-rending woe! Why did You lose, God?"
This is not a modern question, and it was not discovered by modern atheists, agnostics, or freethinkers. It arose many thousands of years ago to a man named Job (pronounced with a long "o") who kept a tender conscience towards God about what he did, and as a result displayed a very upright life, and was blessed with a large, loving family and many earthly riches. And yet without warning this man's world came crashing down upon him. It began with the destruction and theft of his great riches, and was topped by the loss of most of the lives of his dear family. Then, the trouble soon escalated with an inexplicable illness that covered him with sores. His wife, in an apparent hint that God was fickle and undeserving of love, in great disgust told him to curse God and die. His friends, who initially wisely comforted him in silence, then began to lecture him sarcastically about how he must have done something terribly wrong to provoke God's wrath, and his agony grew as a heated argument erupted and Job insisted he had done nothing to deserve the tragedy. Finally a wiser friend suggested that Job look to God's sovereignty, and then God answered Job from a whirlwind, challenging the limitations of Job's knowledge about what God can do. With a deeper appreciation of God's capabilities, Job stopped complaining, and soon God blessed Job twice as much as he had been blessed before.
There is a simple enough answer to the question, at least to the mind: by allowing the world and even our selves to fail so dramatically at times, God highlights His capacity to save, a faith in which we sometimes are sorely lacking, and even if we know it in our heads, our hearts are slower and lag behind that and need to be taught. For God is not merely solving complex intellectual problems. He is solving problems that encompass our entire beings that He has created and bestowed with capabilities that are an image of His own.
No, the Bible ordained the death penalty for two people having sex outside of marriage. If the girl could prove she wasn't willing, she might (might) escape the penalty, but his penalty was the same whether she consented or not, which means that her consent is meaningless in terms of his guilt.
And... what point is there in discussing THIS detail to someone who is dug in about polyester/cotton blends being a sin?
I suspect it is indeed quite random. If there’s only a one-in-a-million chance that life could emerge without a creator, then look around and notice that out of the millions and millions of stars we can see with planets around them, there’s no sign of life on any of them yet. I suppose every lottery winner thinks God chose him, but the fact is, random chance still accounts for one winner. Our planet won the lottery and here we are, convinced that the whole thing was planned that way. Well, you are.
If you can get beyond the pettiness of polyester mindedness, ONE treatment of the universe uniqueness issue is found at Hugh Ross’s old earth creationism site http://www.reasons.org.
But if she can't prove he forced her, she dies too. That means it's not rape that's being punished, it's sex. She might escape the penalty if she can prove he forced her, but it won't change the nature of his crime or his punishment.
...this is not the only viewpoint for treating the issue, but it’s quite powerful in that it allows just about everything the modern scientists are telling us and STILL says that you’re asking Humpty Dumpty to climb up the wall and reassemble himself. Materialism is quite a ludicrous god.
But what is your polyester point. That seems more frivolous and if you are only going to throw up a polyester shield, why talk about this at all? We are discussing implementation issues here.
We keep bearing y’all witness that a God of peace and joy is out there, but this is also a God of rough roads. We do not sugar coat scripture or faith. We’re explaining what faith does and that it’s exercised through a spiritual sense. Faith in this sense is about going after something your spirit has perceived, and ultimately in partaking in that something. I’m not here to damn, because Jesus didn’t come here 2000 years ago to damn either! (Damning will come later, but as long as God is not in a hurry to do it neither am I.)
There is a person I can think of who has been through a lot of physical torment for about the past 47 years or so. At the time she was about 16 and dove off a floating platform breaking her neck and leaving her with nothing but neck movement.
Her first few years lead to a lot of questions ans seeking answers. She established a ministry to persons facing physical adversity. The odds her her living past her 20's were not good that was just the facts dealing with quadriplegia in the 1960's. But even now she is again fighting for her health as she was diagnosed with Breast Cancer about two years ago. Try and find the book Joni. She's written many books and she has good insight in dealing with the fears and emotions involved with disabilities. Her name is Joni Ericson Tada.
Since she was 16 years old every day her family or an assistant or now her husband gets her up and dressed. One interesting thing I've noticed. Because quads loose stomach and diaphragm muscles she should not be able to sing yet she does. She was a paint {artist} before her accident and yet she still can paint.
Personally I had my own world turned upside down 28 years ago this month. The events that happened and the eventual outcome are such I can only see GOD's hand in it. 28 years go this month I kissed my first wife good-bye for the last time as I left for work. An hour and a half later a co-worker was driving me home. The hearse hadn't even arrived at the house. She had a massive heart attack in the driveway and my dad couldn't bring her back with CPR nor could a doctor had either had one been there.
This next part is for what some are questioning about Job's family being restored. The window in my life with her was closed. Within a few weeks other doors would begin opening that would first shake me to my core even to a point of trying to run.
I took time off a few weeks. Then I took a transfer to another facility a few miles away as I was working maintenance in a nursing home and the company had several in town. That decision would open more doors into my life including meeting a woman whom I became close friends with at work.
We got to talking usually eating lunch together then we started dating of sorts with her kids in tow. One date something bad went wrong. We were to meet at a mall for a movie. She was late and when she got there she was not herself. We went in and we sat down at the food court. She went somewhere for a minute then came back saying she felt weird. I went to get some cookies thinking it was blood sugar. A few minutes later she tried to get up and fell to the floor.
I carried her out of the mall to her car and an officer pulled up behind me and asked which hospital? I told him and he said stay close and we left out him running lights and siren with me following. She was a CNA in a nursing home and has sat with those dieing many times. Only this time it was herself and she was describing things to me.
We made it to the ER and it was touch and go with her armed drawn tight to her chest unable to come down. They had no answers. A few days later her preacher came in with a Deacon and laid hands on her for healing. What happened next is hard to explain. I felt the presence of peace and calm unlike any I have known before or since. From that calm came an inaudible voice but words I heard by something I can't explain say "It's going to be OK".
What would you think at that point? GOD is going to heal? That's not what was said though. Yea at first it was taken that way. But things kept happening. Next came a mental numbness that hit me no emotion that lasted a day or so. At that point I was ready to run mainly because of fear as I had not experienced this feeling before.
I'm not Catholic but an elderly Nun at the hospital took me to the side and said OK what's going on? She could tell. I explained it to her and she said the mind and body must have rest. I went home early and rested a day and in about two days I was OK. Nearly 3 months later she was still in the hospital still no answers just some return of use in her arms and hands.
Before this happened we had gotten serious and my mind was not changed by this so we married in the hospital. It would be six months before her discharge.
I'm not going to lie and say it all went smooth. We had a real rough first year or two. But despite all that hit us we kept believing.
It is mans desire to see the outcome of a painting before the artist is finished and it is completed. We'll see things we don't understand in it until after it is completed and the artist can explain and show us. We did soon realize how perfect a plan GOD had for us in our future. 10 years later I would be the one disabled though left with my physical strength and ability to still care for her. I depend on her, she depends on me, and we both depend on GOD. For reasons I did not understand 28 years ago GOD took my first wife home at the age of 23. This was the person I had planned to grow old with. My wife today is not a replacement she is another woman I feel in love with and married. In doing so I also gained two teenagers LOL.
I hate to think of what would have happened had I ran off or had I not heard what I heard. Lot's of prayers were said because difficult decisions were being made that effected several persons. She's a blessing to me. Yes indeed we asked GOD why when it happened. Some answers take years to understand and some can not be understood this side of heaven. I do know this. The person I was 28 years ago could not have endured this because I did not have the maturity nor wisdom to make the decisions I'd face in a matter of a few months. Acting in faith trusting GOD to be there can be difficult because we all want to do it our way. We forget how our actions affect others even ones we do not know.
The sickness? In the past nine months she's faced Asthma, mild Emphysema, and Thyroid Cancer. Right now is a calm.
The point is, your God’s rules change as human sensibilities change. This happens because he is and always has been a human invention, so his “eternal laws” evolve along with us. He is whatever we say he is, which is why there are so many different religions all claiming to have the “correct” interpretation. Rape and polyester are just examples.
This is so often how God works. Satan sets a horrible destructive bomb and forlorn pieces are left scattered all over. Then God ranges out even wider than the pieces and gathers them into something new and better.
You belong to the Church of the Begged Question... since you are idee-fixed on the notion that spiritual stuff is of human invention, you are never willing to look outward in spirit. Self fulfilling prophecy.
...a spiritual view upon the matter will tell you that variations in expected practices are an organic part of the story.
This is so often how God works. Satan sets a horrible destructive bomb and forlorn pieces are left scattered all over. Then God ranges out even wider than the pieces and gathers them into something new and better.
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Absolutely.
Thanks be to God.
I was baptized... about a month after I was born. First Communion... jeez, can’t remember what year it was. Confirmation as a Roman Catholic... age 13.
Is there anything more along those lines I need to do?
Pray for me all you want. Reading these just makes me more alienated.
I believe Lady is talking about manners of expressing a faith walk. That differed through history, which is one of the marquee dispy tenets, but most non dispy Christians agree with this more or less as well, modulo certain details.
The tagline I use is one that I have experienced in a very profound way and I believe it with all my heart. It is not a "sappy adage", but a deep, spiritual truth that CAN be realized by anyone genuinely seeking to know God.
Hey, we want the best for you, we are not here to damn you. We urge and warn you that you need to get off the devil’s wind and onto God’s if you don’t want to end up in spiritual utter destruction.
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