Posted on 04/29/2013 7:09:21 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
"The theology of Rome, the authority of Rome—that was appealing to us," says Father Mark Lewis of St. Luke's Parish, the first US Episcopal church to join the Catholic Church under new Vatican rules.
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
It cuts both ways across the Tiber ... and yes, it is sad. All Christian denominations need to focus on the bigger picture instead of quarreling with brothers. We are in the beginning acts of a modern Roman Empire persecution on the world stage.
Swaggart was Pentecostal, Assembly of God, before he was defrocked for adultery.
Sadly, ken5050 is right. Truro, the Falls Church, and others lost on appeal. The ECUSA/Richmond Archdiocese battle vs those parishes was never about faith, or the parishioners, it was about the property, the incredibly valuable property.
We can be co-belligerents in the cultural and political wars, but I will never agree that we share the gospel. I believe there may be some who are members of the Roman Catholic Church who have been regenerated by The Lord, but that happened in spite of, not because of, the RCC gospel. As it says in Jonah, “Salvation is of The Lord.”
And yes I made a joke in response to another’s comment, but it was a sincere statement of my belief as to the identity of Antichrist. I didn’t always believe such, but after decades of study I have come to agree with the great pre-Reformers such as Huss and Wycliffe, the great Reformers such as Calvin and Knox, the great church historian J.A. Wylie, and great preachers such as Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, John Wesley, Charles Spurgeon and Martin Lloyd-Jones. I stand on their broad shoulders.
And I have already prayed this day as I was driving for the Lord to use my words to prick the conscience of even one Roman Catholic. My prayer is that someone is concerned enough about his own soul to begin to explore and wrestle with these things to see if they be so. They don’t need to listen to me. They need to go to the Scriptures. They will be taught of God or not at all. (John 6:45) I have scores of resources I could point someone to, but a good starting point might be some of the videos links posted below. Pray for The Lord to open your eyes to the Truth, pray for Him to not allow you to believe a soul-killing lie.
With a Love for Catholics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7HlJHEQ9uU
The Testimony of a Former Catholic Priest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvID3lRyYIc&feature=relmfu
Excellence of Christ’s Priesthood and Rome’s Parody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4LG9tsmxvw
The Biblical Uncovering of the Pope and the Papacy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p792j_scWyw&list=PLE1CB721E3CA65D76&index=9&feature=plpp_video
The last thing I will say is this—men have one of only two possible identities. They aren’t Catholic or Protestant, Baptist or Episcopal. Men are either dead in Adam or alive in Christ. (1Cor 15:22)
After we left TEC I quit following the issues as closely as I used to, I was only too glad to shake the dust of the place from my sandals.
Do you know, they STILL have us on the rolls of the diocese? I tried and tried to get us taken off, but they refused. The only way it could be done would have been to transfer out-of-diocese to a parish with a sympathetic rector, then have him quietly drop us from the rolls. Which seemed like acting a lie, so we never did.
But that leads me to believe that the "membership" figures TEC posts are rotten to the core. If you look at "ASA/Average Sunday Attendance" that sure seems to bear out the notion that there are a lot of phantom phannies in the pews (or not).
TEC is going to have quite a time trying to sell that property, I imagine. Talk about 30 pieces of silver! I hope it chokes them.
You are not going to win any souls to Christ (or, more accurately, to your point of view) by cracking nasty jokes and berating people you don't know, anonymously, on line. The only effective way is by personal, face to face testimony and by living your life in a holy and faithful manner. Your conduct here ain't it, whatever you may believe because you have asked God to justify what you were going to do anyhow.
And relying on the testimony of an angry ex-priest is like taking as gospel everything a disgruntled ex-employee says about how bad his employer was. It's called "conflict of interest".
I don't rant and rave at Christian FReepers about how they are deluded and pagan and going straight to hell. Why don't you give us the same courtesy? (I reserve the right to snark at my former denomination, which has basically lost its Christianity somewhere between Bishop Pike, Bishop Spong, and P.B. Schori. But I haven't met an actual TEC member anywhere on this site, FR is probably like garlic to a vampire for them.)
I can’t win anyone to Christ. No man can do that. Salvation from beginning to end is a work of The Lord. He uses means, but salvation is entirely a work of grace.
I’m not bashing anyone and my joke was a statement of belief. I have merely stated what I believe and you don’t like it. I am sorry for that, but my concern is for truth, not feelings. I would rather be divided in truth than united in error. Unlike some who are well-meaning, I cannot reach across the ecumneical aisle and pretend we believe the same gospel when I know we do not. Also, Catholics regularly say all kinds of things here about Protestants, so I felt free to do the same. Only yesterday there was a piece linked here bashing protestants written by some high and mighty Father Soundingbrass. He went out of his way to bash “Protestants” and call for “consequences” when his argument was really with a bunch of Catholic rebels who were thumbing their nose at the pope.
By the way, the idea that boldly stating the truth ain’t Christian couldn’t be further from the truth. Read your Bible from Genesis to maps and study Christian history and you will find that I am in good company.
Oh, and Richard Bennett may be angry at a system that ensnared him for decades, but he has great love and compassion for Catholic people. I feel the same way. I undertook to understand the history and theology of Catholicism long ago because I was burdened for my Catholic relatives. Why don’t you listen to what Richard Bennett is actually saying instead of judging his temperment? It seems like you ought to want to understand why a Jesuit-educated Domican priest left your church. Listen and judge him on the merits, not your emotions. He has much to say to both the Protestant and Catholic worlds.
I misspoke in post 28 that the Methodist Episcopals merged with the UCC back in the 60s — my bad memory — it was the EUB — Evangelical United Brethren.
Why is it disgusting?
The Catholic Church has four marks that no other church has.
One — Holy — Catholic — and Apostolic.
I don’t believe your church has any of those marks. I’m not up for debating the merits because I already know I am not going to change your mind and you can’t change mind. Let’s agree to disagree.
Did you read any of those links?
One — because it is the one and only church founded by Jesus Christ on Resurrection Morning.
Holy — becuase it is founded by Christ. And guided by the Holy Spirit.
Catholic — becuase it was founded by Christ for all.
Apostolic — becuase it was founded by Christ on the Apostles — the first Bishops.
I agree; in a world where one warrior cult masquerading as a religion wants to eliminate all the other religions, this type of nastiness is counter-productive in the extreme.
My extended family was half'n'half Methodist and Catholic. My generation of cousins agreed we did not want to hear the arguing and sniping about which church was superior engaged in by our parents, aunts and uncles in front of the children at family functions. I'm one of the few protestant evangelicals I know who respects and even loves the Catholic Church and is grateful for her, and also finds value and appreciates the house-cleaning spirit of the Reformation. Certainly, both churches need it again and are undergoing it as we type.
I’m not spending any time on those links. Believe me when I tell you I understand the Catholic arguments, I’ve been through them countless times and I simply don’t find them in any way persuasive. I totally disagree with the assertions the RCC makes of itself and its history. Had I lived in an earlier age I surely would have been thrown on the martyr’s pyre.
What is the History of Your Church?
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You don’t know me. There are no new ideas here, at least not for me, as I have spent decades studying Catholicism. My office is full of historic and modern books by both Catholic and Protestant scholars. Trust me, I know what I believe and why. I also know why I don’t buy the claims of Rome, so I will never change my mind. The Pope himself couldn’t sway me.
oh, the whole Truro and Falls Church story breaks my heart. I KNOW that it’s about the faith and the parishioners but those parishioners did not deserve to lose the physical buildings to the greedy diocese.
We’d gone to Truro way back before the ECUSA got out of control. It was a faith-filled parish. We went again a few times after it joined with the African based diocese. Good people there.
The properties of both Truro and Falls Church could not be better located in prosperous, burgeoning Northern Virginia communities. Truro is smack in the middle of the City of Fairfax, and, ta da, Falls Church in the center of the City of Falls Church (which was named for that church).
We’ve not followed enough to know what’s going on now, if they are conducting services there, who is attending, who (if anyone) stayed with the physical plant of either church under the control of the Richmond Diocese, and/or where others have chosen to attend.
We also left the EC some 25 year ago or so and I am SURE we still show on the books. I don’t have the stomach to pursue the matter. One thing they don’t have is my body or soul. They can keep the name on paper if it makes them feel good ;)
I have noticed over the years that Catholics always try to sell me on some aspect of their system—their history, papacy, priesthood, ceremonies, morality, etc. They never mention the Savior. There is no salvation to be found in any church or system. Salvation is in Christ, and Christ alone. Has anyone ever shared The Gospel of Jesus Christ with you?
What is the Gospel?
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=42511113392
The Gospel: What it is Whom it Reaches
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1190318423
The Christ-Centered Gospel
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=116122311553
How Can We Witness if We Don’t Know What the Gospel is?
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=3907235851
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