Posted on 04/28/2013 12:51:20 PM PDT by NYer
VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Even with modern scientific technology, the Shroud of Turin continues to baffle researchers.
Barrie Schwortz was the documenting photographer for the Shroud of Turin research project in 1978, an in-depth examination of what many people believe to be the burial cloth of Jesus.
Raised in an Orthodox Jewish home, "it took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that I'm a Jew and involved with probably the most important relic of Christianity," Schwortz told Catholic News Service.
"Isn't it funny how God always picks a Jew to be the messenger," he said.
Schwortz said that he, along with the other members of the research team who came from various faith backgrounds, had to set aside personal beliefs and focus on the shroud itself rather than any religious implication it might carry.
"We were there to gather information ... to do empirical science and do it to the best of our abilities," Schwortz said. "It doesn't have anything to do with my personal religious beliefs. It has to do with the truth."
The Shroud of Turin is a 14-foot linen that has a full-length photonegative image of a wounded man on the front and back of the cloth. The scientific team spent five days analyzing the chemical and physical properties of the shroud, paying special attention to the topographical information showing depth that was encoded in the light and dark shading of the cloth.
"Our team went to Turin to answer one simple question: How was the image formed?" Schwortz said. "Ultimately, we failed.
"We could tell you what it's not -- not a painting, not a photograph, not a scorch, not a rubbing -- but we know of no mechanism to this day that can make an image with the same chemical and physical properties as the image on the shroud."
Testing has been performed on the shroud since the initial analyses, and the results continue to be contested. In 1988 carbon testing dated the cloth to the 12th century, leading many to conclude that the shroud is a medieval forgery.
In a paper published in 2005, chemist Raymond Rogers, member of the 1978 research team, challenged the claim that the shroud is a fake. He said the sample used in the 1988 carbon testing was a piece used to mend the cloth in the Middle Ages and that the methodology of the testing was erroneous.
Even though the controversy over the origin of the cloth does not seem like it will be determined any time soon, Schwortz said the shroud can still be regarded as a bridge between science and faith.
"I think the implication of the shroud, for those particularly of the Christian faith, is that this is a document that precisely coincides with the Gospel account of what was done to the man Jesus," he said.
Schwortz said the public online technical database -- www.shroud.com -- that the team created should be used as a tool to learn more about the physical attributes of the shroud, but that individuals should draw their own conclusions about what it means for their faith.
"People often ask me, 'Does this prove the resurrection?'" Schwortz said. "The shroud did not come with a book of instructions. So the answer to faith isn't going to be on that piece of cloth, but more likely in the eyes and the hearts of those who look upon it."
He believes it is Authentic what?
The book of Judas is likely an authentic example of weird Gnostic writings.
Pictures don’t lie.
“Where was it said that all the ‘relic’ fragments of the “True Cross” could form several dozen, if not hundreds, of life size crosses?”
Not that I’m in to relics, but my understanding was that that statement was not an assessment, but merely a supposition.
Yes, I found it. It was merely a disparaging quote from John Calvin, rather than an actual assessment. In the 1870s an actual attempt to add up all of the volumes yielded a result about the third of what the size of the cross is expected to have been.
What a silly statement. The U.S. has vaults containing metals that you are not even allowed to know the name of. The vaults are under 24 hr. armed guard. These metals aren't 'holy' but Wootz steel is marshmellow compared.
So are the pyramids.
I was being sarcastic, Doc!
How else was He supposed to look? He was dead!
Jesus' burial shroud.
It's worth studying.
If it is Jesus' burial shroud, how would you treat it?
Yes, I get your humor. You probably think that’s how everyone’s face looks in death. You would be wrong.
James, come on. You can do better than use Wikis to make a discussion.
“Skeptics have argued that the flower images are too faint for Danin’s determination to be definite, that an independent review of the pollen strands showed that one strand out of the 26 provided contained significantly more pollen than the others, perhaps pointing to deliberate contamination.”
This sentence makes little sense, and skeptics will say a lot of things. Danin criticized Frei, but only because he did not go far enough in his pollen classification.
But read about Danin’s investigation in his own words on the internet before you go quoting unnamed skeptics. Dr. Avinoam Danin is a botanist with the Hebrew University of Jersalem who has published nine books on the flora of the Middle East.
http://www.shroud.com/danin.htm
http://www.shroud.com/danin2.htm
http://shroud2000.com/ArticlesPapers/Article-PollenEvidence.html
Keep in mind that there are several Jewish scientists who are on board with the whole Shroud study and its being genuine. Meanwhile, when you come forward with a “skeptic” who has the credentials of this man (and others), we might listen.
“Skeptics say Jesus never existed.” (Sorry, Josephus....)
Thank you for that reply. My puzzle is that the pictures I see of those with the stigmata show the wound in the center of the hand. I am wondering if the shroud is right then why not the same location for those with the stigmata.
I was not trying to be funny.
You probably think that’s how everyone’s face looks in death.
Not hardly. The Lord had been 'prepped'. I should have added that to my post. Sorry. All of the dead faces that I've seen that were prepped looked peaceful.
“Sorry. All of the dead faces that I’ve seen that were prepped looked peaceful.”
Yes, funeral homes are good at that. Wartime and a few other situations can change that.
“My puzzle is that the pictures I see of those with the stigmata show the wound in the center of the hand. I am wondering if the shroud is right then why not the same location for those with the stigmata.”
Dr.Zugibe has worked on crucifixion experiments and has shown the nail going through the palm (in the fold of the thumb) and then downward and exiting at the top of the wrist. This gave better support and satisfies both the Shroud image as well as those who have shown the stigmata.
Shroud of Turin PING — interview TED talk with Barrie Schwortz, photographer for the 1978 STURP research project.
The exit wound show the nail exited from the wrist but a nail driven into the base of the palm, right where one can feel a depression between the bones, a.fact an experienced crucifixionist would know, the bones of the wrist will move apart, the median nerve is either severed or damaged, causing the thumb to flop into the palm in permanent rictus, and the natural exit on the back of the wrist after passing through the Space of Destot, named for the anatomist who mapped it, is exactly where it is seen on the Shroud coming out the back of the middle of the wrist. This will support the full weight of a man. A nail through the muscles between the finger bones of the palm may or may not be sufficient to attach the victim to the patibulem for the several days required in many crucifixions. . . Often that location would tear through under weight and stress.
Was that before or after he invented his famous time machine, seeing as how the Shroud was reliably known to have been displayed and pictured much as we see it today 102 years before Leonardo was born!???
His tests that explored a volunteer's reactions to being on a cross assumed a pedulum, a foot rest, which allowed a much easier time on the cross, not an actual nailing to the stapes without a footrest, a much more common form of crucifixion. Earlier experiments assuming no pedulum (the position of the feet on the Shroud suggest this) found early exhaustion from having to choose between the pain of hanging on the nails through the arms (Zugibe's volunteer had a leather padded strap) and an inability to inhale completely complicated by fluid on the lungs from a severe scourging, to trying to get a deeper breath by pushing up against the nail driven through one's feet and that agony. Zugibe's allowed his volunteers frequent rest breaks. I discount his findings discounting asphyxiation as a mode of death.
You could also point out that the dorsal image has on the back side and under the feet on the front side, has dust that that has been identified as a type of limestone (Travertine Aragonite) whose composition is unique only to a small area found just east of Jerusalem. . . And is the Stone the tombs where Jesus was laid were carved out of the bed rock was formed. It is found no where else on earth with that unique signature. Could a medieval forger have known to have place microscopic traces of Travertine Aragonite in just those particular spots on the Shroud, where they would have been dropped off the feet of the body, and picked up off the hewn rock shelf on the back side of the cloth of ONLY the dorsal image??? And only be capable of being analyzed by 20th Century Microelectronspectroscopy???? What 13th Century forger would have thought of it????
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