Posted on 04/06/2013 9:21:17 AM PDT by knarf
Dave will be greatly missed
you wrote:
“My wife is Filipina and came from as strong a Catholic nation as any could be ... and they don’t even KNOW about purgatory.”
Even the Protestants in the Philippines know about Purgatory: http://anglicanusephilippines.blogspot.com/2011/06/filipino-episcopalians-debate-about.html
“Are there different kinds of Catholic?”
Yes, there are 22 or so sui juris Churches within the Catholic Church: Roman, Melkite, Byzantine, Ukrainian, Italo-Albanian, etc. The Philippine Catholics are part of the Roman Church. And they know all about Purgatory in the Philippines. There’s even a mountain named after it there: http://www.pinoymountaineer.com/2013/01/mt-purgatory-traversemt-pack-mt.html The problem is probably your wife’s knowledge or lack thereof. Your wife never went to Mass there?: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SgiA6utAaAQJ:www.mb.com.ph/node/145573+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Other Filipinos are much better informed and educated:
ruben arthur nicdao
1 year ago
i am a promoter of the divine mercy devotion and the st. gertrude prayer for souls in purgatory; a.filipino in manila; just discovered ur site now and was so happy to know that a lot of people are also saying this awesome prayer many times over like i do!.500 times daily on the rosary beads since last year, to this day a total of 100 million souls would have been released from purgatory! praise GOD! thank you st. gertrude!.
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=424
http://anglicanusephilippines.blogspot.com/2011/06/filipino-episcopalians-debate-about.html
Certainly not validation of a collectively accepted doctrine.
"Filipino Episcopalians debate about purgatory while Catholics no longer bother about it!"
You wrote:
“Hardly a mountain, hardly well known and how can extreme cold be a ‘purgatory’?”
All of that is irrelevant as to whether or not the doctrine is know.
“Certainly not validation of a collectively accepted doctrine.”
Oh, so now it’s about “accepted doctrine” rather than “they don’t even KNOW about purgatory”? The ever shifting sands of Protestant lost arguments.
I don’t know Tagalog so I can’t look up much in that language, but Purgatory is obviously well known - and well accepted - in the Philippines. Every Filipino Catholic I ever met knew about it. Maybe your wife needs to lesrn more about her own people and homeland. Even I know - because I’ve bought their books - that Sinag-tala Publishers in Manila has published books on Purgatory over the years. My favorite book from them is Fr. Leo J. Trese’s The Faith Explained. Purgatory is in chapter 14.
Maybe you should download the Catechism for Filipino Catholics: http://www.scribd.com/doc/41395449/Catechism-for-Filipino-Catholics-Book
This is what it says in chapter 29, section 5:
5. Purgatory
2072. The Church doctrine on purgatory, “the state of final purification,” is based mainly on its ancient liturgical practice of offering prayers for the departed (cf. CCC 1030-32). This was done so that they may be purified and be accepted into heaven. Holy Scripture speaks of such prayers for the dead: “Thus he [Judas Maccabaeus] made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from sin” (2 Mc 12:46). Scripture also speaks of a purifying fire: “He himself will be saved, but only . . . through fire” (1 Cor 3:15; cf. 1 Pt 1:7). This doctrine of purgatory proclaimed in the Church Councils (cf. Trent, ND 2310) both moderates and strengthens the Church teaching on the particular judgment. It moderates it by calming excessive anxiety over the remnants of selfishness and sin even in the lives of very generous and loving persons.
But purgatory also reinforces the particular judgment’s stress on the radical demands of salvation. It is not a question of achieving a minimum “passing mark” with God who overlooks the errors still remaining. Rather, to gain eternal life, even the small remaining sinfulness must be purified so the blessed can be permeated completely by the light and love of the Lord. Whether this purifying process takes place within the process of dying itself, or in some other manner, we do not know, since the processes of both death and purification are hidden from our earthly eyes.
You wrote:
“Episcopalians are protestant ?”
Most definitely. In the U.S. their sect was called the “Protestant Episcopal Church” until the 1970s. You did know that, right?
"Oh, so now it’s about “accepted doctrine” rather than “they don’t even KNOW about purgatory”? The ever shifting sands of Protestant lost arguments."
Of course not ... had I known that, I wouldn’t have asked that question ... but you knew that ... right?
You wrote:
“Well, you DID cite this Mt. as evidence of the knowledge of purgatory in the Philippines and I merely stated that ... no, it’s not.”
And you were wrong. And still are. And will continue to be wrong.
That's it?
YOU can unqualifyingly state that and I can't?
and I'M the intolerant protestant?
You wrote:
“That’s it?”
Yes.
“YOU can unqualifyingly state that and I can’t?”
Yes. You were wrong about Purgatory. You were wrong about knowledge about Purgatory in the Philippines. You are even wrong about what Mt Purgatory does and does not signify.
“and I’M the intolerant protestant?”
Maybe you are, maybe you aren’t. You’re wrong about Purgatory as discussed between us in this thread and, if you hold to the same errors, you will continue to be wrong. Being wrong is not a sign of intolerance, and neither is being right.
Amen, amen, amen.
In between him and John Ankerburg, they pointed me to the Pathmaker - Jesus of Nazareth, crucified, buried and resurrected.
I was so messed up in RCCism, triple-AAA-masonry and was even flirting with buddhism....
I got saved, and in the years following, they were valuable teachers for me.
I was introduced to both of these guys somewhere around 1983 or 4 or 5 .. I forget.
Exposing The Lie.
P.S. the debate between Dave Hunt and James White is interesting....
Regardless of where a Christian is in that debate, the Dave Hunt detractors say that Dave was not a “scholar”, but why then did James White agree to debate Dave Hunt if he was not able to stand his own in a debate?
James White is no slouch, and to all the detractors: Dave Hunt’s record stands.
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