[NYer]

Ping!

[Lx]

complete with a bad case of acne and involuntary celibacy.

Awesome!

[Boogieman]

“we might wonder why it was necessary to tell people to stop pulling off pieces of live animals and eating them. They must have gotten into some pretty bad habits while they were still stuck on that ark.”

Well, it kind of makes a bit of sense. You’ve only got 8 people to feed, on a boat full of animals with no refrigeration. If you kill a whole cow, most of it’s going to go bad before you can eat it. If you just amputate one leg and cauterize it, well, problem solved.

[Bayard]

Good responses. However, the interpretative methods Christians used at the time of Origen predate Christian scriptures. They actually borrowed this from Jewish scriptural scholarship.

Philo of Alexandria and others were already fusing Greek methods of critical thought with the Jewish Religious scriptures well before the time of Jesus.

This is why a practice of detailed exegesis was already relevant in the discussions Jesus made in the gospels.

[Boogieman]

“Since the biblical references to Purgatory can be found in these books, Martin Luther and the Anglicans also excluded them.”

That’s an easy poke in the eye to Protestants, but it really isn’t the main reason the books were excluded. They were separated from Scripture by Protestants for much the same reasons that they were always kept separate from the NT and OT by the Catholics themselves, mainly because they were written after God had caused the spirit of prophecy to depart from Israel, therefore their inspired nature is rightfully suspect.

[Persevero]

The Westminster Confession on the subject:

“I. Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence, do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of his will, which is necessary unto salvation; therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his Church; and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the Church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which maketh the holy Scripture to be most necessary; those former ways of God’s revealing his will unto his people being now ceased. “

The Bible speaks of itself:

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”

2 Timothy 3:16

[Texas Fossil]

Copyright?

—

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,530346,00.html#ixzz2PRgRJjN6

As it survives today, Codex Sinaiticus comprises just over 400 large leaves of prepared animal skin, each of which measures 15 inches by 13.5 inches (380 millimeters by 345 millimeters). It is the oldest book that contains a complete New Testament and is only missing parts of the Old Testament and the Apocrypha.

The 4th-century book, written in Greek, has been digitally reunited in a project involving groups from Britain, Germany, Russia and Egypt, which each possessed parts of the 1,600-year-old manuscript.

They worked together to publish new research into the history of the Codex and transcribed 650,000 words over a four-year period.

The Codex was both a key Christian text and “a landmark in the history of the book, as it is arguably the oldest large-bound book to have survived,” McKendrick said.....

[D-fendr]

Thanks for posting.

This link from the article looks extremely promising - for students of all ages:

http://www.rtforum.org/study/index.html

[ZinGirl]

a council of Catholic bishops who prayed to Mary

gotta point out....don't catholics argue "we don't PRAY to mary...we ask her to intercede?"

well...seems to be a bit of gray area there.

[daniel1212]

So according to this article, the story of Jonah was not a historical account, but simply an allegory.

And consistent with this, RC scholarship also teaches that that Genesis 2 (Adam and Eve and creation details) and Gn. 3 (the story of the Fall), Gn. 4:1-16 (Cain and Abel), Gn. 6-8 (Noah and the Flood), and Gn. 11:1-9 (Tower of Babel are “folktales,” using allegory to teach a religious lesson.

Also, the story of Balaam and the donkey and the angel (Num. 22:1-21; 22:36-38) was a fable, and the “sons of God” in Gn. 6 are really “the celestial beings of mythology.”

Furthermore, the records of Gn. (chapters) 37-50 (Joseph), 12-36 (Abraham, Issaac, Jacob), Exodus, Judges 13-16 (Samson) 1Sam. 17 (David and Goliath) and that of the Exodus are stories which are “historical at their core,” but overall the author simply used mere “traditions” to teach a religious lesson.

What this also means is that the Bible’s attribution of Divine sanction to wars of conquest, “cannot be qualified as revelation from God,” and things like clouds, angels (blasting trumpets), smoke, fire, earthquakes,lighting, thunder, war, calamities, lies and persecution are Biblical figures of speech.”

In addition, the sea Moses parted for Israelites to cross over that was the Reed Sea, which was “probably a body of shallow water somewhat to the north of the present deep Red Sea.” Thus rendered, the miracle would have been Pharaoh’s army drowning in shallow waters,

They also speculate that some of the miracle stories of Jesus in the New Testament (the fulfillment of of the Hebrew Bible) may be “adaptations” of similar ones in the Old Testament, and that the Lord may not have actually been involved in the debates the gospel writers record He was in, and thinks that most of which Jesus is recorded as saying was probably “theological elaboration” by the writers.`

They even cast doubt on much of the Lord’s sayings, teaching that “The Church was so firmly convinced that the risen Lord who is Jesus of history lived in her, and taught through her, that she expressed her teaching in the form of Jesus’ sayings. The words are not Jesus but from the Church.”

They ask, “Can we discover at least some words of Jesus that have escaped such elaboration? Bible scholars point to the very short sayings of Jesus, as for example those put together by Matthew in chapter 5, 1-12 - http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Ancients_on_Scripture.html#Remarks

Now how many traditional RCs subscribe to this?

All of which impugns the overall literal nature the O.T. historical accounts, and as Scripture interprets Scripture, we see that the Holy Spirit refers to such stories as being literal historical events (Adam and Eve: Mt. 19:4; Abraham, Issac, Exodus and Moses: Acts 7; Rm. 4; Heb. 11; Jonah and the fish: Mt. 12:39-41; Balaam and the donkey: 2Pt. 2:15; Jude. 1:1; Rev. 2:14). Indeed “the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety” (2Cor. 11:3; Rev. 12:9), and if Jonah did not spend 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale then neither did the Lord, while Israel’s history is always and inclusively treated as literal.

[Cvengr]

The author of the article and many posters here seem to forget the role of God in communicating His Word to each and every believer in their human spirit.

He is a living God, not a dead God, nor does He leave the sanctification of our souls to those also dead or out of fellowship with Him.

[Lera]

I often wonder how many Jews would be drawn to Jesus if they could separate Him from the sins committed against their great-grandparents in His name….

This written by a Roman Catholic is a joke right ?

[svcw]

God made it work....that’s all I need.
People ask many questions....
my favorite is: can God make a stone so heavy He can not lift?
God it God, for me that is all I need to know.
People who worry about the fringe are beginning to bore me.

[Salvation]

**Who Holds the Bible’s Copyright?**

The Catholic Church, of course!

[Salvation]

**The very fact that Christian apostles were using these books may have led the rabbis to eventually reject them. (Since the biblical references to Purgatory can be found in these books, Martin Luther and the Anglicans also excluded them.) Ironically, the Book of Maccabees exists in Catholic bibles but not Jewish ones,**

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther

Ignorance of Scripture is Ignorance of Christ
Apostolic Authority and the Selection of the Gospels (Ecumenical)
The Bible - 73 or 66 Books? (Ecumenical Thread)
How Rediscovering the “Plot” of Sacred Scripture is Essential to Evangelization
The Word of God is a Person Not Merely a Text
Are Catholics into the Bible?
Are the Gospels Historical?
What is Biblical Prophecy? What Biblical Prophecy is NOT, and What It Really IS
Biblical Illiteracy and Bible Babel
The Pilgrims' Regress - The Geneva Bible And The "Apocrypha"

The "Inconvenient Tale" of the Original King James Bible
The Bible - an absolutely amazing book
Christian Scriptures, Jewish Commentary
Essays for Lent: The Canon of Scripture
Essays for Lent: The Bible
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How we should read the Bible
St. Jerome and the Vulgate (completing the FIRST Bible in the year 404) [Catholic Caucus]
In Bible Times
Deuterocanonical References in the New Testament

Translations Before the King James: - The KJV Translators Speak!
EWTN Live - March 23 - A Journey Through the Bible
"Our Father's Plan" - EWTN series with Dr. Scott Hahn and Jeff Cavins on the Bible timeline
The Daunting Journey From Faith to Faith [Anglicanism to Catholicism]
Reflections on the Soon to Be Released New American Bible (Revised Edition)[Catholic Caucus]
New American Bible changes some words such as "holocaust"
Is the Bible the Only Revelation from God? (Catholic / Orthodox Caucus)
History of the Bible (caution: long)
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THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: ON READING THE BIBLE [Catholic Caucus]

Because I Love the Bible
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When Was the Bible Really Written?
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Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
Friday Fast Fact: The Bible in English
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5 Myths about 7 Books

Lectionary Statistics - How much of the Bible is included in the Lectionary for Mass? (Popquiz!)
Pope calls Catholics to daily meditation on the Bible
What Are the "Apocrypha?"
The Accuracy of Scripture
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CNA unveils resource to help Catholics understand the Scriptures
The Dos and Don’ts of Reading the Bible [Ecumenical]
Pope to lead marathon Bible reading on Italian TV
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: Books of the Catholic Bible: The Complete Scriptures [Ecumenical]

Beginning Catholic: When Was The Bible Written? [Ecumenical]
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
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A Bible Teaser For You... (for everyone :-)
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: New Wine, New Eve

Return of Devil's Bible to Prague draws crowds
Doctrinal Concordance of the Bible [What Catholics Believe from the Bible] Catholic Caucus
Should We Take the Bible Literally or Figuratively?
Glimpsing Words, Practices, or Beliefs Unique to Catholicism [Bible Trivia]
Catholic and Protestant Bibles: What is the Difference?
Church and the Bible(Caatholic Caucus)
Pope Urges Prayerful Reading of Bible
Catholic Caucus: It's the Church's Bible
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The Church or the Bible

[boatbums]

I’ll say one thing for you...you can sure dig up the dumbest essays I’ve ever seen from Catholics who like to pretend they are theologians! It was such a nice, but short, respite from the usual.

[boatbums]

As the Church spread and gained political clout, and Christians began to shamefully mistreat the people from whom they’d gotten monotheism in the first place, there surely was genuine heroism entailed in standing firm. I often wonder how many Jews would be drawn to Jesus if they could separate Him from the sins committed against their great-grandparents in His name….

Here's an example of that dumb stuff. The "Church" he refers to is, of course, the Roman Catholic Church and he says it spread and gained political clout then he claims "Christians" began to shamefully mistreat the Jews. The only thing is, genuine Christians weren't the ones doing these acts since the Holy Spirit would not be leading them to act against the law of God and do wrong to their neighbors. So, the "Church" (i.e., the Roman Catholic Church) was really who did the persecuting and mistreating not only to Jews but to the genuine Christians who refused to follow the false religious leaders who presumed to speak and act for all of Christendom. This writer, in trying to sound humorous, only exposes his own lack of knowledge about the truth and the joke's on him.

[Biggirl]

God’s Holy Bible came via the Church.

[Vermont Crank]

The Catholic Church is Divinely-Designed and she got her authority directly from Jesus, Our Lord and Saviour; all the other communities, all the other sects, (There is but One Church) have as their founders, sinful men. All of these truths used to but a tautology - today they must be stated repeatedly.

Repetitio est mater studiorum

Jesus established His Hierarchical Catholic Church upon the first Pope, Peter, (and the apostles - Bishops - in union with him) and every single word of the New Testament was written by a Catholic and those words were written to other Catholics in an already existing nascent Catholic Church; that is, the Catholic Church pre-existed the writing of the New Testament and which Testament is owned, lock, stock, and barrel, by the Catholic Church and she alone has the authority to say what it does or does not mean.

It is not well known, but it is, nevertheless, true that one crucial criteria for what would or would not be included in the Canon of The New Testament is whether or not this or that Catholic Gospel or Catholic Epistle had been read at The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

[Vermont Crank]

Dr. Zmirak is more than capable of error in his wise-acre rhetoric. And he is wrong about Genesis but what he wrote is to be expected for he writes for Crisis which is a Neo-Con enterprise.

Here is the authoritative Pontifical Biblical Commission

Concerning the Historical Character of the First Three Chapters of Genesis

June 30, 1909 (AAS 1 [1909] 567ff; EB 332ff; Dz 2121ff)

I: Do the various exegetical systems excogitated and defended under the guise of science to exclude the literal historical sense of the first three chapters of Genesis rest on a solid foundation?

Answer: In the negative.

II: Notwithstanding the historical character and form of Genesis, the special connection of the first three chapters with one another and with the following chapters, the manifold testimonies of the Scriptures both of the Old and of the New Testaments, the almost unanimous opinion of the holy Fathers and the traditional view which the people of Israel also has handed on and the Church has always held, may it be taught that: the aforesaid three chapters of Genesis Contain not accounts of actual events, accounts, that is, which correspond to objective reality and historical truth, but, either fables derived from the mythologies and cosmogonies of ancient peoples and accommodated by the sacred writer to monotheistic doctrine after the expurgation of any polytheistic error; or allegories and symbols without any foundation in objective reality proposed under the form of history to inculcate religious and philosophical truths; or finally legends in part historical and in part fictitious freely composed with a view to instruction and edification?

Answer: In the negative to both parts.

III: In particular may the literal historical sense be called in doubt in the case of facts narrated in the same chapters which touch the foundations of the Christian religion: as are, among others, the creation of all things by God in the beginning of time; the special creation of man; the formation of the first woman from the first man; the unity of the human race; the original felicity of our first parents in the state of justice, integrity, and immortality; the command given by God to man to test his obedience; the transgression of the divine command at the instigation of the devil under the form of a serpent; the degradation of our first parents from that primeval state of innocence; and the promise of a future Redeemer?

Answer: In the negative.

IV: In the interpretation of those passages in these chapters which the Fathers and Doctors understood in different manners without proposing anything certain and definite, is it lawful, without prejudice to the judgement of the Church and with attention to the analogy of faith, to follow and defend the opinion that commends itself to each one?

Answer: In the affirmative.

V: Must each and every word and phrase occurring in the aforesaid chapters always and necessarily be understood in its literal sense, so that it is never lawful to deviate from it, even when it appears obvious that the diction is employed in an applied sense, either metaphorical or anthropomorphical, and either reason forbids the retention or necessity imposes the abandonment of the literal sense?

Answer: In the negative. VI: Provided that the literal and historical sense is presupposed, may certain passages in the same chapters, in the light of the example of the holy Fathers and of the Church itself, be wisely and profitably interpreted in an allegorical and prophetic sense?

Answer: In the affirmative.

VII: As it was not the mind of the sacred author in the composition of the first chapter of Genesis to give scientific teaching about the internal Constitution of visible things and the entire order of creation, but rather to communicate to his people a popular notion in accord with the current speech of the time and suited to the understanding and capacity of men, must the exactness of scientific language be always meticulously sought for in the interpretation of these matters?

Answer: In the negative.

VIII : In the designation and distinction of the six days mentioned in the first chapter of Genesis may the word Yom (day) be taken either in the literal sense for the natural day or in an applied sense for a certain space of time, and may this question be the subject of free discussion among exegetes?

Answer: In the affirmative.