Posted on 03/29/2013 8:31:16 PM PDT by OKRA2012
VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis has won over many hearts and minds with his simple style and focus on serving the world's poorest, but he has devastated traditionalist Catholics who adored his predecessor, Benedict XVI, for restoring much of the traditional pomp to the papacy.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Washed feet.
And He turned water into wine and fed the multitudes. Some of us, even though not Catholic, try to live up to those things.
Cooks have a role model.
/johnny
Jonathan Brandmeier liked him. ( BTW he sounds the same as he did in the 80’s, but now he’s on WGN. ) He was in fine form, I guess Wednesday morning, when he did a bit with fake “Lollapalooza leak” band names, which was hilarious, along with comments on the Pope’s foot washings. He’s a traditional RC, and declared he liked the new Pope, and made approving comments on this upcoming ( at the time ) event. He did throw in a bit where he imitated one of the kids confiding, “I stole his wallet,” opining that hell would have to be made deeper and hotter to receive the perpetrator of such an act.
I’m waiting to see what Ann Barnhardt says. she has been having a hissyfit over the new pope not being a traditionalist, High-Mass type. She had a post the other day where she was freaking out he didn’t genuflect correctly.
This is a dishonest article written to attack the Catholic Church and give the impression that there is severe, irreconcilable conflict when in fact there are only small disagreements or no disagreement at all.
No one that I have heard of is “rankled by every gesture and every decision” of Pope Francis. The media coverage of the Catholic Church and the new Pope has without exception been negative, inaccurate and dishonest.
But, in characteristic form, he added: "What liberals forget in their present crowing is that even as Francis makes himself — and the church — more popular by projecting (a) compassionate image, he will simultaneously make it harder for them to criticize him when he reaffirms the doctrinal points they want him to overturn."
Not sure what to make of the new Pope's slightly transgressive acts of humble piety. Is he sucking up to liberal critics or is he playing a deeper game? Personally, I hope he has a Machiavellian streak as the traditionalist commenter quoted above seems to assert. Or, even better, I hope this is sincere at the deepest level and that he holds traditional understandings of Church doctrine with equal sincerity, to the chagrin of his current liberal cheerleaders.
Grasping for straws and trying to create conflict. There has been some controversy - which I’ve read about - over whether women should participate in the foot-washing, but I don’t actually know anyone who objects, and believe me, I know very traditional Catholics.
Just the opposite really. The more I've been reading it, Vatican II is more open while traditionalists were more elitists (such as calling for a return to the Latin mass and condemning any deviance from that mass).
Elitist? That is odd. In our parish (very untraditional Vatican II church) the priest likes to change the words to the prayers to things he thinks are "relevant," as I am sure he feels the Spirit moves him. And does that mean that we get to change our responses if we feel similarly moved? Nope, anything but. We still have to say what we are told to say, but he can change his parts. Why? Because he is the priest. That is elitism. When he says things like "Happy are we who are called to this loving banquet of the Lord" just try saying "Oh, God, thank you for giving me this opportunity to partake of this beautiful meal of love and peace in your house of worship that we now stand in which doesn't expect us to be sectarian in any way before each other, who are really more than just friends and neighbors but really connected by a deep abiding love in your person" and find out how you are different than the clergy. That, my friend, is the very spirit and definition of elitism.
Doing things as demonstrated by tradition protects all of us from thinking we are God's oracle for deciding what others get to say. When we celebrate the Mass the way the Church has approved for generations we participate in something bigger than us. Tradition is the cure for elitism.
In the past I would have agreed but I'm seeing, especially lately, that it has become its own elitism. Look at the link I posted several posts up. This is a person most here respect but has gone off the deep end criticizing everything this new Pope does, even the way he genuflects.
he has devastated traditionalist Catholics who adored his predecessor, Benedict XVI, for restoring much of the traditional pomp to the papacy.
***Humility has a way of showing ‘pomp’ to be spiritually worthless.
he has devastated traditionalist Catholics who adored his predecessor, Benedict XVI, for restoring much of the traditional pomp to the papacy.
***Humility has a way of showing ‘pomp’ to be spiritually worthless.
LOL -- are you serious?
You might as well be going to some non-aligned protestant offshoot church with a santuary in a shopping mall if your priest has the latitude to pull this kind of shenanigan.
santuary = sanctuary
Well for the record, this Protestant loves the new Pope, and the previous two.
Well, you are pointing out one person who says some silly things but that doesn’t somehow undo tradition or traditionalism. Just look at the loony crap spewed everyday by anti-traditionalists about the SSPX and tell me what they prove about the other position? Just consider all the conservatives who say ridiculous and painfully stupid things regarding politics. Should we accept that because they do that we should become liberals? Tradition does not belong to traditionalists, they just love it, and their failings do not mean that tradition is at fault. Ours is a revealed religion and if we accept that tradition is unnecessary then we can just throw the whole thing out. After all, everything we believe about the Bible is just more tradition.
LOL, no that was my tongue-in-cheek example of the possible response when the priest says things not in the liturgy. If you said this you would be seriously asked to be quiet or shown the door. And yet the priests can, and regularly do, say whatever they want regardless of whether it is in the texts and nobody asks them to leave. Why the different standard for them? That is the height of clericalism, a very specific form of elitism, and we should reject it.
Okay, good, lol. But I can see where maybe the priest gets some latitude because he’s entrusted with some authority — which of course entails some accountability — that the laity doesn’t have. So it seems like maybe a give and take.
The press is obviously enjoying this and trying to focus on conflicts on the mistaken impression that Pope Francis is a liberal. He’s not; his liturgical style is different from Benedict’s, but otherwise his message is exactly the same. He just has a different way of communicating it.
That said, some of the self-proclaimed “traditionalists” (who weren’t happy with Benedict, either, because he didn’t go far enough, in their opinion) are just plain ugly and are revealing themselves to be people who don’t care at all about Our Lord or the Faith, but only about ritual practices and appearances. They have a narrow, hostile view of the world, and are the very embodiment of the modern Pharisee. I have been disgusted at some of the things I have read on “traditionalist” blogs.
And believe me, the press is loving it.
I think Pope Francis is wonderful; he’s not particularly interested in liturgy, but so what? I was in Rome for Palm Sunday and I actually saw him celebrate Mass in St Peter’s Square. He does it very correctly and you can tell he loves God and wants everybody else to love Him too. His homily was wonderful and then after the Mass he was driven around the square, getting out to walk every so often, and you could really sense the love and joy.
The other thing, of course, was that by the end of his time, poor Pope Benedict was so worn out and frail after years of dealing with the hostility of the world and even people inside the Church that he wasn’t even capable physically of doing the kind of things Pope Francis is doing. I think some of the traditionalists had gotten used to having a Pope who wasn’t going to challenge their view of the world. Francis is challenging them to get back to the basics of Faith and evangelization, and they don’t like it one bit. None of us like to have our assumptions challenged. But in reading the blogs, I have seen a lot of people who are actually hearing this as a kind of wake up call and are reexamining their own priorities and hearing the message in a whole new way. Which is exactly what Pope Francis wants...
Yes, I can see what you are saying, but I think your understanding misses some key elements of the situation. Consider this. He does have authority (because that is our tradition) but not to change words in the Mass (which isn’t our tradition). And, what accountability does he have in this? If we changed the words of the Mass, which we don’t have the authority to do, we would be held accountable. No doubt. But, when he does that, which he has no more authority to do than I do, what happens. Nothing. Nothing at all. No accountability whatsoever. And, that is why it is a good example of the elitism inherent in non-traditional approaches to liturgy.
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