This UCG I take it?

That's the one...thanks for the link to the excellent booklet!

I can see where defending Mormonism may be of some interest...

Wait...back up the train a moment. When did I defend Mormonism? I asked what should be a straight forward question about what church someone belonged to. What's wrong with that? I should think that any Christian brother or sister would be happy to share their truth with others.

How about you ejonsie22...do you have brethren that you love, worship and fellowship with?

teppe: And i believe that that is why some 7th Century Pope excommunicated Tertullian

Sorry, wrong doubly: Tertullian wasn't excommunicated, he left the main stream to team up with the Montanists. He strongly believed in the Trinity in the Father-Son-Holy Spirit as pre-existent and in Christ begotten not made.

Thanks Cronos. I was gonna smack that down but you’ve taken care of it. :b:

How about you Elsie....are you a brother in Christ? Do you have fellowship or worship Christ with any brethren?

Yup; but it isn't on my homepage.

I didn't feel it was important.

I tend to post stuff from various translations of the bible; instead of how my chosen denomination interprets church 'doctrine'.

But; since you asked, the Wesleyan denomination lets me into one of it's buildings on Sunday.

Sometimes; I don't feel worthy to be there...

I should think that any Christian brother or sister would be happy to share their truth with others.

I have no truth; but I do tend to recognize it on the pages of the best selling book.

I was gonna smack that down but you’ve taken care of it.

No need to smack down; when what we do best is educate.

Smackin's only needed when folks don't do the assignments! ;^)

Dude!

You are ON to something!!!

Preface to the Book of Mormon 1830 Ed.

PREFACE.
TO THE READER—
As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by the evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated, by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi, which was an account abridged from the plates of Lehi, by the hand of Mormon; which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again—and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over again, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated, which ye have retained; and behold ye shall publish it as the record of Nephi; and thus I will confound those who have altered my words. I will not suffer that they shall destroy my work; yea, I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil. Wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, I have, through his grace and mercy, accomplished that which he hath commanded me respecting this thing. I would also inform you that the plates of which hath been spoken, were found in the township of Manchester, Ontario county, New-York.
THE AUTHOR.

AUTHOR!!!

I can say that as a former Protestant converted into the Catholic Church, I continue to learn hard lessons here and there regarding my efforts to explain and defend my faith without coming across as being arrogant or attacking others. It’s good to stand firmly for truth, but my personality flaws can turn a good tendency into something that pushes people away. All I can say is, arguing and debating can be learned much easier than acting in love. That’s the real challenge for me.

I should think that any Christian brother or sister would be happy to share their truth with others.
I have no truth; but I do tend to recognize it on the pages of the best selling book.

I'm sure you took my comment the wrong way or misspoke because you should have truth if you are a Christian:

2Jn 1:1 The Elder, To the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all those who have known the truth,
2Jn 1:2 because of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

Joh_14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Not having the truth is horrible!

1Jn_2:4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Joh_8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

So I'm sure you didn't mean it like that!

Sounds like you have characteristics!

I'm sure you took my comment the wrong way or misspoke because you should have truth if you are a Christian:

Possibly.

What I meant to say was that I had no truth, of my own, but only that of Christ.

Yes, I am Methodist with an Orthodox background.

As far as the link, since it show that the UGC is Polytheist, which puts them outside of Christianity, just like the LDS.

A few points from a Wiki article...

-Belief in a non-Trinitarian view of God. Specifically, the belief that the Holy Spirit is the spirit/power of God and of Christ Jesus rather than a separate person in the Godhead. God ‘the Father’ and Jesus Christ are viewed as distinct ‘God beings’ in the ‘God family’.[13]

-Belief that today's mainstream Christian teachings resulted from doctrinal corruption under the influence of Greco-Roman philosophy which occurred early in the history of the church, so that the major Christian churches now teach various pagan ideas and practices under the guise of Christianity. UCG preaches the ancient pagan origins of traditional Christian celebrations (especially Christmas and Easter) render them inappropriate for true Christians.[23][24][25][26][27][28] Members believe that the doctrines and practices of the United Church of God can be traced to the original teachings of Jesus Christ and the early ‘Church of God’ as described in the New Testament.[29][30][31]

All sounds somewhat familiar...

...like mine.

Yes, I am Methodist with an Orthodox background. As far as the link, since it show that the UGC is Polytheist, which puts them outside of Christianity, just like the LDS.

Not polythiest, but Binitarian as opposed to Trinitarian. The difference being that neither the old testament nor the new testament teaches that the holy spirit is a separate being in the Godhead but instead teaches that it's the spirit of the father and/or son working on earth. The trinity, as history shows, is an evolved doctrine of the Catholic church that protestants borrowed as their own when they split off.

If you would like to find out more you can read Is God a Trinity?"

As far as being "outside" of Christianity it's true...I'm outside of traditional Christianity because it's built today on tradition more so than scripture. The proper term for my beliefs is first century Christianity, primitive Christianity or biblical Christianity. Either are acceptable.

I wouldn't exactly agree with how the wikipedia article characterizes UCG, but it's a lot better than it was. I kind of had a hand in that but there was a person making editorial changes who really espoused no faith except apparent contempt of others that was thinly disguised as defending the Christian faith.

Those types of Christians are really the worse as I'm sure you'll agree.

Mat 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.
Mat 7:3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye?
Mat 7:5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

I that some Christians can judge doctrine if they've put the study time in. The problem is that most don't which is why we have so many problems in Christian churches...they don't know the word but instead are steeped in tradition.

But I think that all Christians can discern fruits. We can see whether someone is trying to be truly helpful by their tone, tenor and attitude. On the other hand we can also see when someone is using Christianity to justify being contentious, divisive, bitter and vindictive. Like the person on wikipedia was.

But luckily it's not the job of any Christian to judge someone else's salvation. That's the job of Jesus Christ.

Possibly. What I meant to say was that I had no truth, of my own, but only that of Christ.

I assumed as much....I just didn't want any casual reader to get the wrong idea. Thanks for clarifying.

Joseph Smith himself confessing:

Joseph Smith, AUTHOR...

Guy on the left now knows the truth now as he died of a brain tumor in 1965. Cool looking dude on the right with tailored suit and the finest Florsheim well polished shoes faked it in order to enjoy the pleasures of Denmark in 1961. His green bike is showing on the right. And they forgot to wear the silly name plate badges. The best two and a half years of my life!

I think this has to be a record.

There is a record. And their will be a reckoning.

No, do not use it. LOL

Wow, second post bashes Catholics.

Bashes Catholics? That's an exaggeration. It does (unfairly in my opinion) criticise the man Ratzinger. What other Catholic is "bashed" by such ill-founded critical remark?

I was going to reply to that person (who made the remark in discussion here...) and ask them to ease up on the guy (just look at some recent pictures of the Ratzinger...he's not in good physical condition. have mercy) but couldn't get freedom from the Spirit to post a reply. I'm not getting full "ok" from the Spirit to post this reply, so I'll need beg a bit of that same mercy I'd like to see extended towards mr. Ratzinger. Just not as much...