Posted on 03/23/2013 4:02:56 PM PDT by Colofornian
SNIP
Surely we must appear at times to be very amateurish when compared to the professional clergy of other churches.
One doctrine presents a particular challenge. It is our firm conviction that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is...“the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.” (D&C 1:30)
This doctrine often generates resistance and repels the casual investigator.
Some have said, “We want nothing to do with anyone who makes so presumptuous a claim as that.”
The early Latter-day Saints were...the butt of many clever stories. We, of course, are not free from that today.
Should we not then make one accommodation and set this doctrine aside?
SNIP
It is little wonder that our missionaries are sometimes thought to be overbearing...
SNIP
Inevitably...the “true church” doctrine emerges very early in any serious discussion of the gospel, for there is no better place to start such a discussion than with the First Vision...
Joseph Smith sought answer to the question “which of all the sects was right…and which…should [he] join?” (JS—H 1:18.)...
...In response to his humble prayer, the Father and the Son appeared to him. When he gained possession of himself so as to be able to speak, he asked “which of all the sects was right, that [he] might know which to join.” (JS—H 1:18.)
He recorded this:
“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt...'
“He again forbade me to join with any of them.” (JS—H 1:19–20.)
That is very blunt language...
If ever he was tempted to disregard those words, they were repeated and sustained in subsequent revelations...
(Excerpt) Read more at lds.org ...
“My personal objection to Mormonism, is that it is a heresy from HELL”
LDS Children’s song book - “He Sent His Son”:
“How could the Father tell the world of love and tenderness?
He sent his Son, a newborn babe, with peace and holiness.
How could the Father show the world the pathway we should go?
He sent his Son to walk with man on earth, that we may know.
How could the Father tell the world of sacrifice, of death?
He sent his Son to die for us and rise with living breath.
What does the Father ask of us?
What do the scriptures say?
Have faith, have hope, live like his Son, help others on their way.
What does he ask? Live like his Son.”
Children are so very precious and filled with God’s Love.
“If God is omnipotent, how can there be more than one god?”
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Here is their take:
Once again, we find Elder Ballard at a loss to answer, in plain, straightforward terms, a simple question. Here he is as he ducks and dodges saying what he can't bring himself to say:
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. [district13]
From the Mormon perspective:
Father
Son
Holy Ghost
Adam (per Brigham Young's messages for over 20 yrs)
Mom-God(dess) Is Heavenly Mother a headache for Heavenly Father? [Mitt, Lds, have a 'Mom-goddess'-- or thousands] [written by a Mormon]...and I'm sure Elz could come up with the lyrics of the Mormon hymn from Eliza Snow that worships your mom-god...
Council of gods:
Smith Excerpt #1: In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)
Smith excerpt #2:
In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through--Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)
And then there's the Mormon FGA Club (Future gods of America): Listen to the words of the Twelth "prophet" of the LDS church, Spencer W. Kimball: “Brethren, 225,000 of you are here...I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved he knows how to do it. I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000.” The Ensign (official magazine of the LDS church), p. 80, Nov. 1975)
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So...looking back up @ Joseph Smith's quote above: The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372) why then do Mormons have three plus (if the gods appointed only ONE for ya???)
As Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie wrote in his Mormon Doctrine book: "Three separate personages--the Father, Son and Holy Ghost--comprise the Godhead...To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these THREE are the only gods we worship." (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 567-577, 1966 edition)
Worry not there is overwhelming evidence to support your efforts when you do. In the light the LDS "doctrine" and such collapses like a house of cards in a breeze...
So you admit to being a polytheist. I wish you guys would make up your minds. One LDSer argues like “hell” against be seen and Polytheist, while others like you embrace it.
Comes from a doctrine written on an etch-a-sketch by “prophets”...
You didn’t answer my question.
If God is omnipotent, how could there be more than one God.
Mormons have a terrible problem here. Instead of teaching there is ONE God, like Christians, Mormonism teaches there are at least 4 Mormon earth gods, a counsel of gods hanging around Kolob Beach during Spring Break, Mormons becoming gods, etc. who knows, there could be millions, billions or trillions of possible Mormon gods.
Either there is one God, who is omnipotent, and the rest of the mormonic gods are not gods at all... Or you have no God who is omnipotent and no real gods. The second is the correct answer. No Mormon god is the Omnipotent God.
As it turns out, this area mormonic teaching is just another heresy with some Shirley McClain pixie dust thrown in to appeal to Mormon pride.
“Mormons have a terrible problem here.”
I have no “problem” worshipping the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
Thread just posted: De-Converting Mormons [From an ex-Mormon]
This ex-Mormon wrote (today):
3) I did my research. I studied up on all the issues both pro & anti. I was able to intelligently convey to them the historical/doctrinal problems with Mormonisim that they weren't aware of.
4) I made it clear to them to them that it wasn't me trying to find an excuse to leave the church but my SINCERE desire for absolute truth which led me out. I started out reading anti books on my mission so that I would know how to DEFEND the church, but I gradually realized that most of the stuff was actually true and that the church couldn't really be defended. My eyes gradually were opened to the fact that the church may not be what it claimed to be.
5) I NEVER ARGUED with them about the issues with the church. I would share the information I learned, give my opinion, but never got in any kind of heated debate or let emotions get in the way. If they came up with some rebuttal, I would give mine and just say "I guess this is just how I see it." If they engage me long enough just the info I provide to them would begin to sink in even if they wouldn't admit it the time. Deep down they knew the things I was saying about the church couldn't be defended. I never "railed" against the church. I explained what things "bothered" me and made me "question" things...
Wow, this is awesome. You are the first in a while to be honest about this part of Mormonism.
You are not even hiding within the “we only worship the father” dodge many use...
Which of course fails in but is oft tried since that is but one part of the definition of Polytheism. But kudos on being honest about this rather heretical POV the LDS have...
““Mormons have a terrible problem here.”
“I have no “problem” worshipping the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
Your problem is so bad, that apparently you don’t understand the issue. Which of the three gods you worship is omnipotent? Any of the three?
Ejones...when we had dozens of open Mormons on FR, I would take note when they would say they worshipped Jesus...and it was almost to a "tee" EVERY ONE of them...I'm talking double-figures.
(I can show you examples if you would like)
Even tho Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie made a BIG deal in the early 80s @ a BYU devotional about not worshipping Jesus, most Mormons didn't listen to him...and still especially don't now that he's dead (And even in McConkie's own Mormon Doctrine -- 1966 version -- he conceded they worshipped Father, Son, and Holy Ghost...so he himself, based upon a verse from D&C 20, underwent a "change" on that between 1966 and the early 80s).
Therefore, it's not unusual at all to find Lds who worship Jesus. And some will include the Holy Ghost.
The "dodge" you're referencing is more Mormons won't pray DIRECTLY to Jesus...even tho the Book of Mormon has a chapter where disciples do that (3 Nephi 19)...and even tho Stephen does it in the Bible (Acts 7).
I had a Baptist neighbor who wouldn't do that either, it's a crazy old world.
Yes, but what is funny is when you take on the defenders, the real pros, they parsed around it all the time. Never came out and would say one way or the other, ignore the Polytheism definition and just say they weren’t. It was rather funny.
The point is that Mormon leaders TELL the "faithful" TBMs not to do that...that it's somehow suspect...all as the Book of Mormon gives them ample examples of people doing that!
“And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and God…when Jesus had thus prayed unto the Father, he came unto his disciples, and behold, they did still continue, without ceasing, to pray unto him…And it came to pass that Jesus blessed them as they did pray unto him…And Jesus said unto them: Pray on; nevertheless they did not cease to pray.” (3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26, Book of Mormon)
Therefore, either the Book of Mormon is off-base; or the Mormon leadership is; (or both).
I conclude both...but it's obvious that Mormon leaders don't have an option of "neither"
Humans ARE weird!
Many would rather be praised into Hell;
than rebuked into Heaven.
And then theu learn what their CHURCH expects of them!!
Then you are a hateful bigot for saying this!
--MormonDupe(We'll still take you back - you don't have to make up those lost years tithes...)
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