[December 1971] The Only True and Living Church [Lds intolerantly claim]

Lds.org (Ensign magazine) ^ | December 1971 | Lds "apostle" Boyd K. Packer

[Colofornian]

SNIP

The position that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church upon the face of the earth is fundamental. Perhaps it would be more convenient and palatable and popular if we were to avoid it; nevertheless, we are under a sacred obligation and a sacred trust to hold to it. It is not merely an admission; it is a positive declaration. It is so fundamental that we cannot yield on this point.

Now to those who think us uncharitable, we say that it was not devised by us; it was declared by Him, for he gave commandments to the early brethren, and I quote:

“… to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually.” (D&C 1:30.)

SNIP I bear witness that he is a prophet of God. I have a witness that Jesus is the Christ. He lives. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true and living church upon the face of this earth, of which I bear witness in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“Wow! I confess I thought this was accepted Christian teaching as well. I understand the fear and denial of Jewish theology, but did not realize it extended to actual Jewish history.”

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Your response has nothing whatever to do with the things discussed. So, are people magically being born circumcised part of “actual Jewish history?” Is Psalm 110 about the one whom David called “my Lord,” and “my LORD said unto my Lord” or not? And why should we believe Jewish fables written in the first century AD and after that, when they of themselves are very absurd and make false claims about the topics of Psalms?

[jjotto]

In Hebrew, the Psalm 110 phrase actually translates “GOD said to my lord...” It first uses the four letter name of God who addresses ‘my master’, a completely different word and concept to any familiar with English usage of a couple generations ago. That second ‘lord’ is the Hebrew word ‘adon’ still used where we might say ‘mister’ in English.

This is pretty basic stuff.

[Colofornian]

In Hebrew, the Psalm 110 phrase actually translates “GOD said to my lord...” It first uses the four letter name of God who addresses ‘my master’, a completely different word and concept to any familiar with English usage of a couple generations ago. That second ‘lord’ is the Hebrew word ‘adon’ still used where we might say ‘mister’ in English. This is pretty basic stuff.

So you're saying Psalm 110 is essentially: "The Lord said to My 'Mister'?"

(We didn't know 'The Lord' had a 'Mister' who was (a) His; and that (b) This 'mister' was somebody THE LORD addressed with high respect)

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

"In Hebrew, the Psalm 110 phrase actually translates “GOD said to my lord...”" ---------------------------------------------------------------- The word used is not Elohim, it is Yehovah יְהֹוָה. "That second ‘lord’ is the Hebrew word ‘adon’ still used where we might say ‘mister’ in English." -------------------------------------------------------------- The sentence is literally Yehovah said unto MY Lord, which is אָדֹן 'adon, sit thou on my right hand until I make thine enemies thine footstool. The word 'adon is not "Mister". It is applied to masters, Lords, Kings, or even husbands in the scriptures. From Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon) From an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, that is, controller (human or divine):—lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with "Adoni-". In this context, the Lord here is the Lord of David. Not the "mister" of David. This is pretty basic stuff once you have a Hebrew Bible with several different Hebrew Lexicons to work with. It first uses the four letter name of God who addresses ‘my master’, a completely different word and concept to any familiar with English usage of a couple generations ago. That second ‘lord’ is the Hebrew word ‘adon’ still used where we might say ‘mister’ in English. This is pretty basic stuff." ------------------------------------------------------------------

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Bloody posts keep coming out funky. I think this time because of the special text. I removed it: A repost:

“In Hebrew, the Psalm 110 phrase actually translates “GOD said to my lord...””

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The word used is not Elohim, it is Yehovah.

“That second ‘lord’ is the Hebrew word ‘adon’ still used where we might say ‘mister’ in English.”

---

The sentence is literally Yehovah said unto MY Lord, which is ‘adon, sit thou on my right hand until I make thine enemies thine footstool. The word ‘adon is not “Mister”. It is applied to masters, Lords, Kings, or even husbands in the scriptures.

From Brown-Driver-Briggs (Hebrew-English Lexicon) From an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, that is, controller (human or divine):—lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with “Adoni-”.

In this context, the Lord here is the Lord of David. Not the “mister” of David. This is pretty basic stuff

[jjotto]

Well who am I to argue with such a profound scholar as you, Mein Herr?

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“Well who am I to argue with such a profound scholar as you, Mein Herr?”

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You can’t, which is why you won’t, thou stuffed mannequin.

[Elsie]

Conventional Jewish history.

Can it be found in a typical Christian's bible?

[Elsie]

I understand the fear and denial of Jewish theology, but did not realize it extended to actual Jewish history.

We got FEAR?

That's a new one on me!

[Elsie]

Well who am I to argue with such a profound scholar as you, Mein Herr?

This is awfully close to Godwin's Law.

[Elsie]

Come on guys - quit fussing back and forth.

I’m learning things from both of you right now.

[jjotto]

Actually, it’s a joke about translating the English ‘sir’ (as in “Yes, sir!”) into German and back, when it becomes ‘my mister’. Translation is just a word-to-word exercise, it requires a ear for usage and context.

Which reminds me of the goldfish who thought he might want to fly. Turns out it was over his head.

[jjotto]

err ...NOT just a word-for-word...

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“I’m learning things from both of you right now.”

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From him, how to evade? And from me, how to give chase? lol

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

"Actually, it’s a joke about translating the English ‘sir’ (as in “Yes, sir!”) into German and back, when it becomes ‘my mister’. Translation is just a word-to-word exercise, it requires a ear for usage and context." ------------------------------------------------------------------ The Psalms are not written in German. The prefix לָ attached to Adon indicates "belonging to". IOW, My Lord. It is not a natural part of that word or its usage, and is only used thus when referring to, well, My Lord, My Master, My Husband. This is no reference to an equal. Here is how it is translated, along with a list at link, of all verses wherein it appears: Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) firm, strong, lord, master 1a) lord, master 1a1) reference to men 1a1a) superintendent of household, of affairs 1a1b) master 1a1c) king 1a2) reference to God 1a2a) the Lord God 1a2b) Lord of the whole earth 1b) lords, kings 1b1) reference to men 1b1a) proprietor of hill of Samaria 1b1b) master 1b1c) husband 1b1d) prophet 1b1e) governor 1b1f) prince 1b1g) king 1b2) reference to God 1b2a) Lord of lords (probably = "thy husband, Yahweh") 1c) my lord, my master 1c1) reference to men 1c1a) master 1c1b) husband 1c1c) prophet 1c1d) prince 1c1e) king 1c1f) father 1c1g) Moses 1c1h) priest 1c1i) theophanic angel 1c1j) captain 1c1k) general recognition of superiority 1c2) reference to God 1c2a) my Lord, my Lord and my God 1c2b) Adonai (parallel with Yahweh) There is one instance, out of nearly 400 times, where it is translated to "sir," Gen 43:20 And said, O sir, we came indeed down at the first time to buy food: But it is not "my" sir. The prefix translated to "my" is not present. Compare: http://qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/genesis/43.html#20 http://qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/psalms/110.html#1 So endeth the Hebrew lesson, for the faux Hebrew.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

The forum just does not like the Hebrew lettering. Removing it, and reposting:

“Actually, it’s a joke about translating the English ‘sir’ (as in “Yes, sir!”) into German and back, when it becomes ‘my mister’. Translation is just a word-to-word exercise, it requires a ear for usage and context.”

---

The Psalms are not written in German. The prefix (see link) attached to Adon indicates “belonging to”. IOW, MY Lord. It is not a natural part of that word or its usage, and is only used thus when referring to, well, My Lord, My Master, My Husband. This is no reference to an equal.

Here is how it is translated, along with a list at link, of all verses wherein it appears:

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) firm, strong, lord, master
1a) lord, master
1a1) reference to men
1a1a) superintendent of household, of affairs
1a1b) master
1a1c) king
1a2) reference to God
1a2a) the Lord God
1a2b) Lord of the whole earth
1b) lords, kings
1b1) reference to men
1b1a) proprietor of hill of Samaria
1b1b) master
1b1c) husband 1b1d) prophet
1b1e) governor
1b1f) prince 1b1g) king
1b2) reference to God
1b2a) Lord of lords (probably = “thy husband, Yahweh”)
1c) my lord, my master
1c1) reference to men
1c1a) master
1c1b) husband
1c1c) prophet
1c1d) prince
1c1e) king
1c1f) father
1c1g) Moses
1c1h) priest
1c1i) theophanic angel
1c1j) captain
1c1k) general recognition of superiority
1c2) reference to God
1c2a) my Lord, my Lord and my God
1c2b) Adonai (parallel with Yahweh)

There is one instance, out of nearly 400 times, where it is translated to “sir,”

Gen 43:20 And said, O sir, we came indeed down at the first time to buy food:

But it is not “my” sir. The prefix translated to “my” is not present. Compare:

http://qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/genesis/43.html#20

http://qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/psalms/110.html#1

So endeth the Hebrew lesson, for the faux Hebrew.

[jjotto]

I confess, your level of scholarship leaves me speechless. I have never witnessed anyone (unzotted) on FR with your quite your, uh, panache!

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[ThanhPhero]

The question originally here was the use of the word “intolerant.” To most of you the word just means “unapproved.” I.e. if you don’t agree with or like someone then that person is “intolerant.” That is the leftist way to use language.