[OneVike]

No one worships "Marty" or any other dead Christian

Yes they do, I know for a fact they pray to dead saints. Sorry, but I got out of classes at 3:00 pm every Wednesday from School to attend catechism classes for 4 years after my Mom married my Step Dad who was devout Catholic. Who by the way also prayed to through them.

purgatory is not a place, not a period of time rather the final sanctification.

Ok, I'll give you that, but here are a couple things I have with the heretical doctrine of Purgatory

1. By adhering to Purgatory, the believer claims that Christ not finish his work on the cross.
2. It is not explicitly found in the Bible.
3. It implies that the righteousness of Christ does not cleanse from all sin.
4. It implies that justification is not by faith alone.
5. It implies that there is something we must do in order to be cleansed of sin.

You may disagree with my perceived problems of the doctrine of purgatory. I expect you to, but it does not make it a founded truth in the Scriptures. You can cite church Fathers, the apocrypha, and various biblical references to fire and purification. However, nothing you point to can be backed up by Scripture.

[Cronos]

You may disagree with my perceived problems of the doctrine of purgatory

The thing is that the problems you've stated are perceived, not real. Let me explain:

1. By adhering to Purgatory, the believer claims that Christ not finish his work on the cross. -- incorrect. Purgatory does not replace in any way Christ's work which was and is one-time. Let me explain -- take 2 cases:
a.Person who does not repent and accept Christ even until his/her death-bed. This person does not accept Christ's freely granted salvation, given by the grace of God. They are going to hell as we know it. There is no purgatory for them
b. Person who does repent and is Christ-filled. They are going to heaven. Christ's salvation is what saves them, nothing else. Christ's salvation has been working through them in life to sanctify him to raise him in holiness through Christ's blood to be ready for entry to heaven. final sanctification

2. It is not explicitly found -- not really -- you have Scripture says that "it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27). and Matthew 25:31-32: "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." and also the most important is "I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper" (Luke 12:59). -- you can't get OUT of hell as we know it, and you don't have to get out of heaven right. So what is this then?

3. "does not cleanse from all sin." -- incorrect. It IS the righteousness of Christ that cleanses from sin, nothing else

4. James 2:24 is remarkably clear: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." and Rom 6:23 " 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord." -- this is clearly stating that while salvation is from Christ's sacrifice alone, the justification as Christ says is not becoming a slave to sin. What does Jesus say saves us?

• Matt. 24:13

  13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

• Matt 25:31-46 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
  35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
  36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Jesus says that if you endure to the end you get salvation, that if you helped your fellow man you inherit the kingdom of God (you get salvation) --> note these are HIS own words

• 1 Pet. 3:20-21: " It (Baptism )saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

• Note -- also in Acts 16:31 we are told to believe and you will be saved -- so Faith is definitely one of the things needed, yet as you see above, it is not ONLY faith. Remember -- James says "even the demons believe - and shudder" -- it is not faith ALONE that saves

  Jesus said it is not faith ALONE. We are saved by God's GRACE. Full-stop.

  James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- it's never faith ALONE. Note that

  1. He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
  2. [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)<,li> [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)

  no one is denying that one MUST have faith to be saved by the freely given grace of salvation, however, it is not faith ALONE. As shown above, Jesus Himself said that

  He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
  [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3
  [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)

  So, do listen to the words of Jesus who said it is faith+ repentance+baptism+the Eucharist+endurance, not any of these in isolation. Of course, these don't "save us" per se, since it is Christ's sacrifice on the Cross that grants us our salvation that we can accept or reject

  The problem happens when one takes one section of the word in isolation.

  5. "implies that something we must do to be cleansed" -- no, in Purgatory you explicitly can't 'do'. you are being sanctified in readiness for heaven, through Christ's blood alone. Nothing else sanctifies or purifies