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To: nonsporting
It's a gift that is received through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9 is often twisted by calvinists (like R.C. Sproul) to say something it does not: that faith is the gift. The English does NOT support this, and Greek most assuredly does not.

So, to recapitulate what you've said:

a) Salvation is the gift
b) Faith is not the gift
c) Faith precedes regeneration
d) Faith is not a work
e) As humans we exercise faith all day, everyday

Are you saying that you believe that God has nothing to do with a person coming to have faith in Jesus Christ ?

So then do you believe that the person who comes to have faith in Jesus Christ does this completely on their own ? That is to say, upon hearing the Word of God, they at some point "make the right choice" and decide to have faith in Jesus Christ ? And do you believe that God has not predetermined that they will do this ?
78 posted on 03/19/2013 1:39:19 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
Are you saying that you believe that God has nothing to do with a person coming to have faith in Jesus Christ?

Nothing? The Lord of glory died to make the gift of God possible through faith and to draw all men. (John 12:32). He reached out to man with the gospel. (Read Luke 4 and Isaiah 61). The Bible says that "faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God." (Romans 10:17) The words of God "are spirit and they are life." (John 6:63) The word of God is powerfully persuasive, and draws us, but not everyone will receive it (and Jesus knew who would not--he's God).

And do you believe that God has not predetermined that they will do this?

Foreknowledge does not equate to predetermination. God, who is from everlasting, sees all eternity. He knows who will believe, and who will not.

He chose "us in him before the foundation of the world, (keep reading), that we should be holy and without blame before him in love having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." (Ephesians 1:5)

This is what he predetermined, not that they would believe, but that those who do believe would receive the gift of god. It is described in different ways:

  1. Power to become sons of God (John 1:11,12)
  2. Living water (John 4:10)
  3. True bread (John 5:33)
  4. Righteousness (Romans 4:17)
  5. Eternal life (Romans 6:23)

But all these intersect in one place, in one person, who calls himself the resurrection and the life, Jesus Christ.

79 posted on 03/19/2013 5:12:20 PM PDT by nonsporting
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