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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Heresy? Once upon the time, you were the heretic.

I don't get the reference to Spurgeon. I disagree with Arminianism as well. If one believes he can lose his salvation, then he is still trusting in his own works to save him, not in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truthy, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession" (Ephesians 1:13,14)

We are sealed with the holy Spirit AFTER we believed, not BEFORE.

Regeneration does not preceded faith. Here is Acts 16:30,31 according to calvinism:

And brought them out, and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" And they said, "There is nothing you can do. But if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then you will demonstrate that you have already been regenerated." (Pseudo Acts 15:30,31)

But the real Acts 15:30,31 does NOT say that. It says "Believe" (aorist imperative, a command which the hearer is implored to obey). "and thou shalt be saved" (future -- salvation, the gift of god, will be the result. It's a gift that is received through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9 is often twisted by calvinists (like R.C. Sproul) to say something it does not: that faith is the gift. The English does NOT support this, and Greek most assuredly does not.

As humans we exercise faith all day, everyday. (I was hiking over the weekend and with every plant of boot in the rocky terrain I trusted that the path would hold and I wouldn't find myself sliding down the mountain trail). God wants us to trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ, not in our own works of righteousness. God is faithful to raise us up in the last day. Such are saved from the 2nd death. They will not stand before the great white throne of judgement and be judged according to their works. Faith is not a work.

Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Roman 4:3-5)

76 posted on 03/19/2013 12:59:24 PM PDT by nonsporting
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To: nonsporting

For the Spurgeon quote, it was to demonstrate the long and glorious history of Calvinism, which is really just the Gospel, but called Calvinism by others. To call it heresy is to curse generations of Christians and mighty men of the scripture.

If I said we are sealed before faith by the Holy Spirit, I did not mean to. But it is clear that outside the Holy Spirit’s influence, no one can call Christ the Lord. That is the gist of the quote already provided. Also again, it is clear that God calls whom he predestinates. And whom he calls he justifies.Obviosly, no one argues they were always justified. But they were predestinated before the foundation of the world. Putting words in my mouth can’t make these scriptures disappear. Nor do I claim there is no such thing as faith. Like that quote from acts, “and as many believed as were ordained by God”. (Going by memory, since responding on a
smartphone.)

As for faith in all sorts of things. Obviously you have free agency. But as far as your salvation is concerned, it is the act of God. Only those whom the Father has given to Christ will come to Him. Such was Christ’s response to the Jews who rejected Him.


77 posted on 03/19/2013 1:38:09 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: nonsporting
It's a gift that is received through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9 is often twisted by calvinists (like R.C. Sproul) to say something it does not: that faith is the gift. The English does NOT support this, and Greek most assuredly does not.

So, to recapitulate what you've said:

a) Salvation is the gift
b) Faith is not the gift
c) Faith precedes regeneration
d) Faith is not a work
e) As humans we exercise faith all day, everyday

Are you saying that you believe that God has nothing to do with a person coming to have faith in Jesus Christ ?

So then do you believe that the person who comes to have faith in Jesus Christ does this completely on their own ? That is to say, upon hearing the Word of God, they at some point "make the right choice" and decide to have faith in Jesus Christ ? And do you believe that God has not predetermined that they will do this ?
78 posted on 03/19/2013 1:39:19 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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